New 80 series front springs fitted to Fierys rear end

[Chris Green90]

There'll soon be room for 35/7's in them there arches matey. Lol

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[Doodle]

Did you manage to get those measurement Doodle? I'd be very interested in what you have there from the bottom of the molding to the top of the rim and the rear also if you could, oh and some idea of loads/fuel in tank

Sorry chief, been flat out all weekend. Tape measure packed in grab bag, I'll get those measurements at work tomorrow.

 

[sae70]

Sorry chief, been flat out all weekend. Tape measure packed in grab bag, I'll get those measurements at work tomorrow.

That'll be great, i'll be very interested to see what you have got there

I've spent an awfully large amount of time reading peoples threads and thoughts about upgrading suspension on the Colorado/Prado/4Runner and it's been very interesting. Overall if people can afford it then OME seems to be the way that most people would go if buying an off the shelf kit. It appears to give the better lift than others and the least ongoing troubles, although people do complain about the stiffness of the ride even with the medium set up. Some speak well of King springs and Dobinsons as well, but it would appear that there's far fewer people using these makes so it's not as easy to get a good overall picture. Then there's Ironman and I'd have to say that generally and not in all cases, but generally people are not so happy with their IM set ups from poor finish quality to poor load support through to sever premature sagging and I've stumbled over a few people now that have been paid out by IM following complaining about their set up.

My IM springs and shocks are severely corroded and look a proper dogs dinner to be honest and did so in a very short period of time from fitting them. It's become far more apparent to me that comparing the lift I now have to that that others are achieving with newer set ups was woefully less and in terms of load carrying ability my rear IM springs had none!!! She would drop from a body molding to rim top measurement of 335mm (which to be fair is not such a bad lift) to 270mm loaded for a weekend away and would be dragging her sorry little arse about all weekend with her back axle just 30mm off the bump stops. Just as a point of note she now stands with a measurement of 340mm fully loaded for a weekend away with her new 80 series front springs

Now you may say, why did you not fit some 'C' spec IM springs for the increased load! Well I did want to fit a pair and called the supplier some 14 months or so back, whom put me on a list to be called back when they came in stock, but I never heard a thing. So I called back again a couple of months later to be told that there was still no stock and I would be called when they arrived. Since then life moved on and I never heard a thing or got around to chasing them up. There was also so many incidents in the meantime of people returning 'C' spec IM springs that had me a little in doubt as to the suitability of them for my needs. The other thing was that actually I was just getting on with what I had as I didn't know any difference and it was difficult to compare my set up to others as everyone was measuring from different positions with different or unknown loads and as I said I was still having fun with what I had and I guess was blissfully unaware just how poor my rear suspension really was!!!

Here is some measurements to ponder.

All of the following measurements have been made from the underside of the plastic arch body molding to the top of the wheel rim & averaged.

My truck;

Colorado 3.0TD Manual SWB GX, no load, no fuel (orange fuel light on), rear seats in, rock sliders and a 50Kg front winch install.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With IM 'B' spec suspension lift all around;

Front 315mm Rear 335mm
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With IM 'B' spec suspension lift on the front, new KYB standard 80 series front springs on the rear;

Front 315mm Rear 405mm
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With IM 'B' spec suspension lift on the front & a 15mm strut top spacer, new KYB standard 80 series front springs on the rear;

Front 345mm Rear 405mm
(calculated)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now the same suspension set ups on my truck again, but with a 150Kg load in the back, still no fuel (orange fuel light on).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With IM 'B' spec suspension lift all around;

Front 315mm Rear 290mm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With IM 'B' spec suspension lift on the front, new KYB standard 80 series front springs on the rear;

Front 315mm Rear 375mm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With IM 'B' spec suspension lift on the front & a 15mm strut top spacer, new KYB standard 80 series front springs on the rear;

Front 345mm Rear 375mm
(calculated)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here is some measurements that I've collated from other peoples trucks over the last couple of weeks.

The thing with these measurements are that I don't really know how much load, fuel or toys are fitted to these trucks, but I'm happy that they would be comparable to my second set of measurements allowing for load, fuel and toys.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24Sevens truck, member on TLCOC & ELCOC. Colorado 3.0TD Auto LWB GX. Nearly empty apart from outback draws in back and no winch.

Had OME 881 +50Kg coils up front & OME 890 coils in the rear, measurements after 18,000miles of use with plenty of over landing.
(suffered a broken/sheared rear OME shock once)

Front 360mm Rear 330mm
(has done a lot of over-landing miles with load, but considers the OME 890 coils to be under-sprung for his requirement and was considering OME +300Kg coils before he fitted the 80 series springs)

Now has OME 881 +50Kg coils up front & second hand standard 80 series front springs on the rear.

Front 360mm Rear 390mm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Kezel's truck, member on PP. Prado 3.4 V6 Auto LWB GXL. ARB style front bumper and winch, large roof rack.

Has an Ironman 'B' set up;

Front 352mm Rear 338mm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Doodle. member on ELCOC. Colorado 3.0TD Manual LWB GX. Steel front bumper with winch, rock sliders, under-body protection 1/2 a tank of fuel and no load.

Has a brand new IronMan 'B' set up;
(originally fitted the Ironman 'C' set up, but felt they were to harsh so returned them)

Front 350mm Rear 335mm
(reports there being no significant difference in lift between the Ironman 'B' set up or the Ironman 'C' set up)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blue Rocks truck, member on ELCOC and PP. Colorado D-4D GX. 65Kg hidden front winch installation, no third row of seats -35kg

Has an OME set up with 882 +50Kg coils on the front & 892 coils on the rear;

Front 366mm Rear 375mm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Cook, member on ELCOC. Colorado 3.0TD Auto LWB FX (no body moldings to measure from), 60Kg hidden front winch install,
rock sliders, under body protection, outback draws;

Has an OME set up with 882 +50Kg coils on the front & 891 +150Kg coils on the rear;
(suffered a broken OME front coil spring at one time)

Front 360mm Rear 370mm
(no plastic body molding as FX model)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Doodle]

Ok, here's my results.

Colorado 3.0TD GX LWB Manual. Steel front & rear bumper, winch, ASFIR plates, rock sliders. 1/2 tank fuel, no load. Ironman 'B' spec all round.

Front 350mm, rear 335mm

 

[Chris Green90]

Are you going to be at lincomb Steven. I popped up my measurements earlier in the thread however because i did not have the body moldings as standard and didnt fit them in the standard way there may be some descrepency in the measurements. It will be interesting to see both our shorties sat next to each other.

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[sae70]

Ok, here's my results.

Colorado 3.0TD GX LWB Manual. Steel front & rear bumper, winch, ASFIR plates, rock sliders. 1/2 tank fuel, no load. Ironman 'B' spec all round.

Front 350mm, rear 335mm

That rear measurements interesting Did you get any measurements when the 'C' springs were fitted?

 

[sae70]

Are you going to be at lincomb Steven. I popped up my measurements earlier in the thread however because i did not have the body moldings as standard and didnt fit them in the standard way there may be some descrepency in the measurements. It will be interesting to see both our shorties sat next to each other

Fingers crossed with a fair wind I plan to be there, tape measure in hand

Standard offside front: 30cm (after lift = 41.3cm) Gained 11.2cm (4.4")Standard nearside front: 32.5cm (after lift = 41.2m) Gained 8.7cm (3.4")
Standard offside rear: 30cm (after lift = 43.2cm) Gained 13.2cm (5.2")
Standard nearside rear: 31cm (after lift = 43.2cm) Gained 12.2cm (4.8")


Seems odd that I seemed to have gained a little more than you there Steven even giving tolerance for me having 265's on and also I think a bigger off set than you (not sure) especially when my rears were used.


Edit: Thought it was just worth mentioning that I also had no fuel and rear seats in but also my empty boxes (1 sheet of OSB)

Those sure are some big numbers you have there Chris! The front one is massive, what make springs did you fit up front?

 

[sae70]

Has anyone got a standard 80 series rear shock that they could measure the fully compressed length and the fully extended length for me?

 

[sae70]

Has anyone got a standard 80 series rear shock that they could measure the fully compressed length and the fully extended length for me?

Not to worry I found this http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/47711-bilstein-koni-shock-options-dimensions-collected.html

I've got some baseline info ya. This info is based on the KYB Monomax shocks which are spec'ed to the stock shock.

Front
Max length 571mm
Min length 355mm
Rear
Max length 572mm
Min length 362mm

 

[Doodle]

That rear measurements interesting Did you get any measurements when the 'C' springs were fitted?

I'll see if I can find my original measurements but from memory and contemporary pictures it was a little higher than it is now, probably by about another inch.

 

[sae70]

Strut top spacers and Diff drop bracket have arrived

Think I shall try to find some Nyloc Nuts for the bolts, but otherwise very pleased Can't wait to see what lift they give.

 

[sae70]

I'll see if I can find my original measurements but from memory and contemporary pictures it was a little higher than it is now, probably by about another inch.

Ah, OK m8. If you could find your original measurements it would be very interesting. I updated the post above to say that you hadn't felt that there was any great difference in lft between the 'B' and the 'C' after stumbling over what you'd said here;

Right, springs are swapped, test driven and measurements taken.

The first thing to note is that the C springs are considerably heavier than the B, just over 2kg per spring (increase of 40%). They're also about an inch or so shorter.

However, the final ride height seems to be pretty much the same, both are giving a 40mm increase over stock.

 

[sae70]

I fitted those 15mm strut top spacers, good job I didn't go for 20mm ones!!!

Ive a load of photos and a story or two to tell, but the up shot is N/S 355mm & O/S 360mm, so the average lift from the 15mm spacers combined with my IM springs has been 357.5mm

Previouse measurement was 315mm.

whatever it is, it's over 40mm I've gained and was only expecting 30mm ish

So she's looking more like photo 'C' after all

i would have preferred slightly less and she may settle some more although i did drive her up and down my ramps alternatly and round the block a couple of times. It may also change slightly with an alignment.

its not massively offensive and only the same as most that fit an OME kit get from the outset if you look at my above data. Question is do I get them out and turn them down to 10mm to see what happens or go with what I have for now

 

[Chris]

Steven, I have to say that I'm not sure about those very standard looking bolts from B&Q. The Fat Bobs kit uses a replacement stud with a very low profile splined design. With these bolts, are you not in fact getting lift from the top pad sitting on the bolt heads? Been a long time since I ferreted around in there, but I seem to recall that the studs were very low profile and just squished gently into the rubber isolation pad. Yes you need longer studs, but I don't think that shoving bolts in there is quite the job.

Come back..



C

 

[sae70]

It's a good point Chris and something that I had considered before putting it all together. As you know yourself those splined bolts are like rocking horse shit to find and are prohibitively expensive to order from FatBobs. I did consider skimming the top off of the bolts before fitting them, but frankly didn't have the time to shoot over to my m8's to borrow his lathe. I did measure the head on the spline bolts and the Hex bolts before going ahead and considered the thickness of the rubber seat in relation to the the extra thickness of the Hex bolt head and thought that it would just push into the depth of rubber.

The head on the splined bolts measures 4mm and the head on the M10 Hex bolt measures 7mm, so a difference of +3mm. I didn't trim any of the thickness of the rubber seat away to allow for the additional thickness as I thought that the tension of the spring and the weight of the vehicle would just push the rubber seat into the bolt head, it is already recessed to allow for the splined bolt head.

it would be good to find a more elegant solution to the bolts and I may look into skimming the head of a socket cap head down to 4mm and replacing all of the bolts with these in the absence of any splined bolts of the correct size.

im not sure how much effect the bolt heads are having on the lift if any, but its worth further consideration certainly.

Surely a High-Tensile bolt from B&Q is the same as one from Wicks or even a fancy fasteners supplier

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Is it just my eyesight, or is the n/side spring mount on Steve's 90 cracked?

Roger

 

[sae70]

REALLY

What photo are you looking at Roger?

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Page 1, 22nd picture from top. The rear part of the spring mount looks cracked with a lot of corrosion around the split.

Roger

 

[wobbly]

I think its the angle the photo is taken from Rog. The base that the spring sits on is about 8mm higher than the adjacent section, and there is a fairly straight lip, so looked at directly from above it does look like a crack.

Pete

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Another point that worries me is the degree of corrosion. Does this motor live by the sea?

Roger