New 80 series front springs fitted to Fierys rear end

[sae70]

So, after much research, measuring, thinking and more research and reading I decided to have a punt at replacing Fiery's Iron-Man +40mm 'B' rated rear springs with a brand spanking new set of 80 series front springs to see if they will give the support that I'm after for less than half the money of a pair of 'C' rated Iron-Man springs.

After some more searching and research I ended up buying a pair of KYB springs from off of eBay listed as being for a 'Toyota Land Cruiser 4.5 ATV/SUV 04/1995 > 05/1997' as they were the cheapest branded springs that I could get on eBay and the part number on the advert apeared to be the same one across the 80 series model range, unless you live in America. FYI the ones I ordered were part number RF2574 and came in at £65.34 delivered.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRONT-Coi...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item564ad990b7

Today the sun was out and the springs had arrived, so out with the axle stands and job on

Out with the IM springs.

They came out real easy with the shocks disconnected and the spring removed from the brake valve thing.

Time for a quick measure up;

(LEFT) std spring, 13.5mm bar dia (MIDDLE) Ironman +40mm spring, 15.3mm bar dia (RIGHT) 80 series front spring with 14.4mm bar dia

The Ironman spring is +20mm over the standard spring and the 80 series front spring is +95mm over standard.

Looks to me as though the IM spring is progressive?!

In the 80 springs went.

They didn't need too much effort to get in, just a bit of jacking and very gentle jimmy bar work

Job done and not very much fuss at all! I even adjusted the Hand Brake while she had the wheels off

 

[sae70]

RESULTS

These two photos were taken with the same load in the boot, about 40Kg, rear seats in and no fuel in the tank (orange fuel light on).

IM +40mm 'B' rated springs all round.

IM +40mm 'B' rated springs up front and new standard 80 series front springs up back.

Before I put the 80 springs in I held a wooden staff against the side of the truck and marked her height with the IM springs in. I then did the same with the 80 springs fitted holding the staff against the truck in the exact same position.

She's up over the IM lift an average of around 75mm, which is about what I was expecting from my extensive reading that one could expect a lift of up to 115mm from new 80 series front springs fitted to a SWB 90 series. If you add the two together my +40mm IM lift and the 80 spring lift that's a total coincidentally of 115mm.

There are some anomalies in among all of these figures though.

Firstly, when I bought my IM lift way back when it was sold as a +35mm lift?!!! It actually lifted my truck an average of 50mm all round, but my standard springs were absolutely shagged and she sat on her bump stops with very little load in the boot back then. I think that the IM lift is now sold as a plus 40/50mm kit?!

I'm also confident that due to the many measurements that I've taken over time for various reasons I can safely say that my rear IM springs have sagged about 5mm since I first installed them, not so bad really.

The other thing is that following a test drive I found the 80 springs to be softer than the IM ones that I removed. Not in a silly way, but definitely more compliant in a comfy way (NB - I have no rear ARB fitted). I never did find out the true spring rates for any of the springs, but I do think that the 80 series springs have a lower spring rate compared to my out going IM ones. Again for me this will be great as what I'm after is the trucks back end to drop at least 50mm once I load her back up again.

I flexed the 80 springs over my ramps before the test drive to settle them in a little.

I then measured the lift again when I returned from the test drive and she'd settled by about 5mm. (see the pencil marks on the staff)

So if you take into account the 5mm sag in my IM springs, the 5mm settle following the test drive and the fact that my IM kit was just a 35mm lift when purchased, she's only gone up 100mm over standard

Following all of my research I'd already decided that I would have to lift the front a little following fitting the 80 springs and this wouldn't be such a bad thing now I have a winch install. I've decided to fit a top spacer, probably a 15mm one depending upon how she looks once loaded up again, but I've no idea where I'd easily get hold of a set of these. You can apparently fit a 6mm spacer in there with the standard bolts and this should give a lift of about 10/12mm. You apparently get a lift of about double the thickness of the spacer. I'm happy with the IM springs up front and how they handle, I may just want a little more height hence the thinking behind a top strut spacer.

Id be interested in others thoughts, but I'm myself very pleasantly happy at this moment in time with the result

 

[Shayne]

Congrats on your success it takes guts to try something different

I've just fitted aluminium front spacers to my 90 and i see no reason you couldn't buy the same and have them machined down to whatever thickness you want . The listing is ended but the seller originally had 2 sets which makes me think he might make them himself . No harm in asking if he can make more .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/toyota-3r...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Added info . I think Chris tried to put spacers on top of his ironman lift on his 90 but found it pushed the ball joints to their limit and so wouldn't work . But as your planning to use a smaller spacer perhaps its possible . More careful calculations i guess but have a word on Chris to see how big a spacer he tried to use .

 

[Ben]

How many pics Steven?

Your getting as bad as me.

Will look good when you get the front lifted.

 

[Doodle]

Strangely, the front arch gap on mine with IM 'B' springs is a good bit higher, even allowing for some sag and the slightly larger tyres on Fiery.

 

[sae70]

Congrats on your success it takes guts to try something different

I've just fitted aluminium front spacers to my 90 and i see no reason you couldn't buy the same and have them machined down to whatever thickness you want . The listing is ended but the seller originally had 2 sets which makes me think he might make them himself . No harm in asking if he can make more .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/toyota-3rd-gen-surf-mk6-hilux-90-series-colorado-land-cruiser-2-front-lift-kit-/251224300718?nma=true&si=57NrSKyyOOZI5y8vanp8izLA3nk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Added info . I think Chris tried to put spacers on top of his ironman lift on his 90 but found it pushed the ball joints to their limit and so wouldn't work . But as your planning to use a smaller spacer perhaps its possible . More careful calculations i guess but have a word on Chris to see how big a spacer he tried to use .

That's a very interesting link is that Shayne, cheers for that Did you fit the spacers to yours as yet (have a missed your post about it) do you know if they gave you roughly the 2x thickness in lift. I shall certainly be giving him a call when I'm clearer as to what exactly I'm doing. I've read many many threads and topics over the last couple of weeks on here, TLCOC, PradoPoint, IH8MUD, DiffLock to name but a few not to mention all of the misc posts on American forums that talk about lifting Collies & Prados. What I've done here with 80 springs is not pioneering and can be traced back a good number of years, hey I even stumbled over an old thread of Chris's before he fitted OME to Lil-Blue where he was discussing 80 springs. I think from memory the issue that Chris has was trying to fit much thicker top spacer (30mm) with new OME lifted springs back in the day, please correct me if I'm wrong Chris The thing with what I've done is that not many in all my searching have fitted new springs, most opting for second hand pre-sagged springs. Only two that I could find and apart from our own Chris Green90 only one other SWB using 80 springs. To cap it all very little real data about what people had done and the effects that what they'd done had had! Except that everyone appeared to be very happy with the end results in use, including Chris Green90

 

[sae70]

How many pics Steven?

Your getting as bad as me.

Will look good when you get the front lifted.

Someone needs to take over in your absence Ben! Pretty sunset photos and photos of hot chicks are all well and good, but there not off roading are they!

 

[Chas]

Someone needs to take over in your absence Ben! Pretty sunset photos and photos of hot chicks are all well and good, but there not off roading are they!

That's right Steven, we want real porn.

 

[sae70]

Strangely, the front arch gap on mine with IM 'B' springs is a good bit higher, even allowing for some sag and the slightly larger tyres on Fiery.

Did you post up any photos or measurements of yours Doodle, with the new Ironman kit fitted? What was the kit sold as 35/40 or 50mm?

 

[sae70]

I'm going to nip outside for a couple of hours before the school run for another play, measure and load her up with some weight, see whats what

 

[Doodle]

Did you post up any photos or measurements of yours Doodle, with the new Ironman kit fitted? What was the kit sold as 35/40 or 50mm?

To be honest, it didn't ask when ordering but the current Ironman catalogue says 45mm.

I'll try and get some up to date pics (you'll have to forgive the sponsorship livery) asap now everything is settled, but in the most recent picture I have my front tyre is completely below the large scalloped line in the side cladding on the door.

 

[Shayne]

Mine are fitted now , i think i posted pics on one of my other threads . A one inch spacer on the front gave me a 55mm lift . My bushes are shot so my tracking has not been altered in many years and it is not fully extended as i think some do to make a bit more space . In simple terms the coil spacer is little more than a washer bolted on top of your spring to make it longer , i don't see why you couldn't make it any thickness you want as long as you shorten the bolts as well . By the way i put mine on genuine toyota springs that are well past their sell by date but the improvement in ride is astonishing .

The only thing to remember is if you want to go up say 10mm you only want a 5mm spacer because the angle of the spring multiplies by 2 .

 

[Chris Green90]

Nice one Steven. You will love them trust me. Chris is the fountain of knowledge on this one he has said that a top spacer will put double the lift of the spacer (30mm spacer = c.60mm lift.)

Edit. Just to note. Obviously I have gone quite a bit higher on the front than you are planning Steven but I do think now looking at my front wheels are a little out the camber seems to be out. I will get to adjusting mine butI dare not even have a look to see what state my adjusters are in.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, top spacers are a bit weird, they have an odd effect. I have some inch ones here which if put in with a spring lift just don't work. Now you could put a lesser spacer in or machine these to be thinner, but it's not a precise science. I put them in with a 50mm OME lift and the height increase was epic. You could limbo under the diff. But the springs and wishbones got a bit cuddly. The fix to that is top ball joint spacers. But I never found any. Also needed is a diff drop too as the half shaft angles get crazy.

Chris

 

[sae70]

......................I have some inch ones here which if put in with a spring lift just don't work. Now you could put a lesser spacer in or machine these to be thinner.............

This interests me Chris, what do you think may be required to thin them down? Would a Bastard file do the job I've been having a play today and Ill post my findings up later, but what I've decided that I'd like to see is a 30/40mm lift from a spacer so need something around 15/20mm thick. I have a m8 with a lathe I wonder if what you have Chris would fit in his lathe Have you any dimensions and or photos

 

[silvercruiser]

Would this mate with a lathe have the spacers to try out the size too

Il get my coat

 

[Chris]

I know I have posted all this guff before but here's a refresher.

The spacers go in here. Now why's that rotated? This board drives me nuts. Not taken with an iphone and used before. Right, you'll just have to turn your heads/



Then you bolt it up. Look - this pic is OK WTF? So it sits OUTSIDE of any suspension components. This is an inch spacer I think.

B***ger. OK this is what it does to the top wish bone



And the shaft angles



But look at the lift!



Nuts.

 

[Shayne]

I've been trying to get rear spacers made for a couple of weeks and every promising lead results in me being told sorry we just don't have any bar with a 6 inch diameter even in mild steel . Today i found a local plastics factory so called in to see if they had any suitable sized nylon (same stuff they make sledgehammer handles from) . They did and they said it would take an hour to make the spacers from scratch (using the conical rear bumpstop as a template) but they couldn't take on any more work until Easter at the earliest !?!

Been mulling it over for a few hours and i think tomorrow i will go back and buy the nylon then drive around local woodwork companies and try an convince someone who makes stair newel posts that nylon is easier to cut than wood and will not damage blades .

 

[silvercruiser]

Wow thats some serious angles on the front shafts

 

[Shayne]

Just thought - You don't need a lathe , if you get the spacers which always seem to be 1" alloy you could get them skimmed by anyone with a milling machine . The front spacers have no flanges or ridges because they are bolted in .