Thought it was a wheel bearing going ...

[frank rabbets]

The Toyota Manual says 103 ft lbs. There would be at least another 50% safety margin on top so they should take at least 150 ft lbs before snapping=faulty wheel stud.

 

[grantw]

The Toyota Manual says 103 ft lbs. There would be at least another 50% safety margin on top so they should take at least 150 ft lbs before snapping=faulty wheel stud.

It also didn't actually torque up to that ... it sheared well before the click of the torque wrench

 

[Chris]

As much as I use Milners for parts and Roughtrax too, I have to say this is probably one of the items like inner axle oil seals that I'd only fit genuine.

 

[IRLGW]

Hmmm brittle failure and the boat looks stretched from about 3 threads down. I wold test another in the vice and make sure the torque is being applied centrally with a short socket. 109Nm = 88Lb/ft so it shouldn't have failed.

 

[grantw]

Hmmm brittle failure and the boat looks stretched from about 3 threads down. I wold test another in the vice and make sure the torque is being applied centrally with a short socket. 109Nm = 88Lb/ft so it shouldn't have failed.

I did this yesterday - torqued well beyond this.

The other 5 I replaced at the same time also torqued up fine, but all of them are being replaced with genuine once they arrive.

I also bought shiny new wheel nuts from Milners for when I have the wheels refurbed - should I only use genuine here too?

 

[frank rabbets]

I would have thought a nut would be OK if it was a close fit on the threads. Studs however are under constant tension and flexing and any stud, in the end, will fail due to metal fatigue. Some earlier than others so Toyota studs will be the best bet. Interesting subject is metal fatigue. I made a suspension spring for a clock with a 60 lb pendulum. Thinner the better for accuracy so I guessed at .002" thick, .5" wide and 2/3" long. High carbon steel. It was going to work to an arc of 5 degrees. I got my friend at Airbus to do the calculation on their computer= 190 years!!! Some parts on planes are so reliable they will last hundreds of years before they fail.

Just because a bolt will stand 150 ft lbs torque does not mean it will last indefinitely at 100 lbs torque.

 

[outdoordan]

I do my steels to 110nm never had a problem.

I'm no expert... my Grandfather was; he was chief metallurgist for GKN.

I inherited his love for mechanical engineering but am about as unqualified as they come. Speaking as such the stud in that photo looks to be of an extremely poor quality.

Seriously poor. It looks like cheap bright mild steel whereas I suspect the genuine Toyota stud was/is made from a steel with a much higher carbon content. I'd bet you a night in my local curry house the stud in the photo was made in India or if it came from China it was purchased on price not specification.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

Out on a local run with that sounded like a wheel bearing on it's way out but was becoming worse much quicker (within miles) first onto more rumbling on corners and then onto a full wobble through the steering. I left it a little longer than normal to check as I was so close to home - this nearly proved a very costly mistake!

View attachment 143295

As my 80 was at the mechanics for 5 months(!!) and just had an MOT (where I don't think they would have touched the wheels) I have no idea when the wheel nuts where last checked or when the wheel was removed.

New wheel studs all around have been ordered.

After losing mine at 70MPH I changed them all out with Toyota parts , The sickening feeling as your wheel bounces ahead of you towards the central reservation is one I never want to repeat.
Mine went very quickly, Stereo was on so didn't hear a thing but went from wobble to off completely in seconds.

 

[grantw]

I would have thought a nut would be OK if it was a close fit on the threads. Studs however are under constant tension and flexing and any stud, in the end, will fail due to metal fatigue.

Thanks Frank.

 

[grantw]

Seriously poor. It looks like cheap bright mild steel whereas I suspect the genuine Toyota stud was/is made from a steel with a much higher carbon content. I'd bet you a night in my local curry house the stud in the photo was made in India or if it came from China it was purchased on price not specification.

I really should have known better, I wanted to replace all wheel studs with genuine and rough trax didn't have enough stuck so took the milner option.

I'm not sure the milner sales staff are understanding the potential consequences of what I sent them. Hopefully they respond with something sensible today.

 

[frank rabbets]

I've worked on cars since lat 50's and have never had a broken wheel stud or bolt but I have always greased them. I think if they are rusty there will be a twisting action which the bolt or stud is not designed for.

 

[clivehorridge]

I've worked on cars since lat 50's and have never had a broken wheel stud or bolt but I have always greased them. I think if they are rusty there will be a twisting action which the bolt or stud is not designed for.

We’ve had this debate before haven’t we Frank. Despite the no-grease advice, mine still have a smear on them and as with you, I’ve never had one shear or come loose in 46 years of driving.

 

[frank rabbets]

My Audi handbook said "DO NOT USE GREASE ON THE WHEEL BOLTS". Some time later I tried to take a wheel off and the bolts were seized so that piece of advice went out of the window.

 

[grantw]

I've worked on cars since lat 50's and have never had a broken wheel stud or bolt but I have always greased them. I think if they are rusty there will be a twisting action which the bolt or stud is not designed for.

In this instance it was a brand new stud and bolt so there wasn't much resistance from the thread.

I too have come around to a small amount of grease on the threads - I hate that horrible creak you get when it's completely dry.

 

[Chris]

OK so I had a prompt reply from Milners after Grant got less than a satisfactory response. This is what they said.
They acted immediately, with one of the directors actually replying to me out of hours yesterday.

Test run with a steel tube (wall thickness 6mm) and a standard wheel nut we sell
Torqued wheel nut up to 170NM (125ft-lb)
The wheel stud has not snapped but showing signs of stretching as sharp edges appearing
Looking at the torque figure we have for a landcriuser is states that the max torque figure is 149nm (110ft-lb)
It does say in the manual that the torque figure goes from 80 upwards we can only assume that this is to do with if you have used say copper slip and this will reduce the figure by 10-15%

We have tried to do a good test on these I know its not the real world but I wouldn’t be lying if I said we do sell over 5000 a year of these studs world wide

 

[clivehorridge]

OK so I had a prompt reply from Milners after Grant got less than a satisfactory response. This is what they said.
They acted immediately, with one of the directors actually replying to me out of hours yesterday.

Test run with a steel tube (wall thickness 6mm) and a standard wheel nut we sell
Torqued wheel nut up to 170NM (125ft-lb)
The wheel stud has not snapped but showing signs of stretching as sharp edges appearing
Looking at the torque figure we have for a landcriuser is states that the max torque figure is 149nm (110ft-lb)
It does say in the manual that the torque figure goes from 80 upwards we can only assume that this is to do with if you have used say copper slip and this will reduce the figure by 10-15%

We have tried to do a good test on these I know its not the real world but I wouldn’t be lying if I said we do sell over 5000 a year of these studs world wide

In all fairness, I find that last sentence a bit scary TBH

 

[frank rabbets]

Signs of stretching at 125 ft lbs means that particular stud had not got enough safety margin.

 

[Chris]

Guys a complaint has been made and the supplier has in all fairness responded. They aren't manufacturers. They only sell parts and this didn't fail. Feel free to contact Milner and ask for details of the manufacturer so you can take it up with them. You might try this with a genuine stud whilst you're at it and see what happens.

I can't do any more.

 

[frank rabbets]

They are liable for the parts they sell irrespective of who sells to them unless there is no possibility of intermediate inspection. Clearly with a stud there is possibility of inspection. The fact they might have to set up a laboratory and employ a specialist is irrelevant. I think they are relying too much on their suppliers word. That stud failed as it deformed before it's safety margin had been reached.

 

[Chris]

Sure but how about, well that's good that they took it seriously. Or, good that they responded so quickly. Or maybe whilst they don't actually have a specialist metallurgy lab they had a good go at it ...

They know they are liable, they sell brakes, wheels, tyres etc. They don't need telling. But they responded and now all they get is more criticism.