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TLC HJ61 total reconditioning
- Thread starter oding
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Looking great, Oding 
I'm interested to know what the stock arrangement was for the cabling from the body to each of the rear doors, and whether you have rear wipers.
Do you intend any modification to them?
My 80 has the barn or ambulance rear doors and soon after I bought it, the rear wiper on one side stopped working. Like a fool, I didn't investigate it and soon afterwards, I had a complete wiring burn-out, rear to front, including a total melt down of the fuse-box.
Obviously, I had all this repaired some 8 years ago, but this weekend, one of my rear wipers failed again, making me very anxious to find out why, from lessons learned from the past.
What had happened before was a short in the section between body and door, where the wires a continually being flexed each time the door is opened. I don't know the stock set-up with certainty, because it had been 'repaired' before I got it.
I was wondering if you had any alternative wiring methods in mind for the rear doors on your '61.
I'm interested to know what the stock arrangement was for the cabling from the body to each of the rear doors, and whether you have rear wipers.
Do you intend any modification to them?
My 80 has the barn or ambulance rear doors and soon after I bought it, the rear wiper on one side stopped working. Like a fool, I didn't investigate it and soon afterwards, I had a complete wiring burn-out, rear to front, including a total melt down of the fuse-box.
Obviously, I had all this repaired some 8 years ago, but this weekend, one of my rear wipers failed again, making me very anxious to find out why, from lessons learned from the past.
What had happened before was a short in the section between body and door, where the wires a continually being flexed each time the door is opened. I don't know the stock set-up with certainty, because it had been 'repaired' before I got it.
I was wondering if you had any alternative wiring methods in mind for the rear doors on your '61.
If it's any help Clive, Zanussi dishwashers went through a spell of catching light for exactly the same reason. The replacement wiring loom came with instructions to mount the door and body loom ends diagonal from each other so that the loom 'rolled' or twisted rather than being folded.
If not too many wires, you could try splicing in some short lengths of extra flexible test meter wire across the door hinge in the manner above.
If not too many wires, you could try splicing in some short lengths of extra flexible test meter wire across the door hinge in the manner above.
That's one of the problems really Rich, it's the numbers of wires. There's rear wiper, number plate, rear fog, and heated rear glass, and some carrying no lightweight current either, I'd imagine.
I understand the diagonal concept, and I've thought of the "phone spiral" type, but I'm not sure of ratings on the very flexible stuff. Haven't tried too hard either, just bouncing ideas around for the minute.
I understand the diagonal concept, and I've thought of the "phone spiral" type, but I'm not sure of ratings on the very flexible stuff. Haven't tried too hard either, just bouncing ideas around for the minute.
With the correct fuses in the fuse box there should be no reason for a burn out. Note use of the word 'should'.
Coily phone lead is no good, only very thin and a nightmare to work with. I don't suppose there's anything off the shelf that would do it. I have some test lead wire that's gotta be 30A. If you decide its viable, I will willingly send it to you as it's been sitting in a box for years.
Coily phone lead is no good, only very thin and a nightmare to work with. I don't suppose there's anything off the shelf that would do it. I have some test lead wire that's gotta be 30A. If you decide its viable, I will willingly send it to you as it's been sitting in a box for years.
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Thats very kind of you Rich, but I would imagine that it's available here, it's just knowing who to ask and what to ask for. Is the flexi cable you have on kind offer 2 or more cores? I would imagine it to be 2 core...
It's only single Clive but I have both red and black. It's up to you of course but I wouldn't miss it and at least it would be doing some good rather than just sitting in a box in my garage.
I imagine so Shayne. I still can't understand how a short in a circuit can cause such a burn-out, the fusing system should isolate any such occurrence, but in practice...
I don't have a problem with inserting additional fuses, a remote mini fuse block dedicated to the rear doors may be a viable option.
oding
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Looking great, Oding
I'm interested to know what the stock arrangement was for the cabling from the body to each of the rear doors, and whether you have rear wipers.
Do you intend any modification to them?
My 80 has the barn or ambulance rear doors and soon after I bought it, the rear wiper on one side stopped working. Like a fool, I didn't investigate it and soon afterwards, I had a complete wiring burn-out, rear to front, including a total melt down of the fuse-box.
Obviously, I had all this repaired some 8 years ago, but this weekend, one of my rear wipers failed again, making me very anxious to find out why, from lessons learned from the past.
What had happened before was a short in the section between body and door, where the wires a continually being flexed each time the door is opened. I don't know the stock set-up with certainty, because it had been 'repaired' before I got it.
I was wondering if you had any alternative wiring methods in mind for the rear doors on your '61.
I have done a thorough check on all the circuits. Most are still original. I did experience a burnout before and left the whole wiring harness junk. With that, I always check for the resistance in the circuit as this is an indication of loose or burnt wires. And probably terminals or connectors. I would suggest inserting a rubber tube or a large heat shrink tube in between body and door. You really have to cut all the wires to do this. After inserting the rubber tube, solder connect all wires. Insulate with heat shrink tubes. You must solder to reduce resistance. When done, open wide the door to get the full stretch of the wire. I would suggest to seal the holes where the wires or harness pass through with silicone sealant or any sealant.
I would add to Oding and say that a suitably sized and placed connector one side or other of the door hinge would save hassles if the door needed to be removed for some reason. These are readily available from EBay but an additional fuse block wouldn't hurt. It just shouldn't be necessary if the correct size fuses are in place at the main fuse box. Then the whole wire is protected, not just the bit in the door.
With the rubber tubing, it could be worth a visit to a breakers and rob some rubbers from car doors and insert them. Purpose made and large and flexible.
With the rubber tubing, it could be worth a visit to a breakers and rob some rubbers from car doors and insert them. Purpose made and large and flexible.
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oding
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I imagine so Shayne. I still can't understand how a short in a circuit can cause such a burn-out, the fusing system should isolate any such occurrence, but in practice...
I don't have a problem with inserting additional fuses, a remote mini fuse block dedicated to the rear doors may be a viable option.
One possibility of a burnout is the fusible link. This fuse is located and connected to the positive terminal which "should" burn in case of a short. A short does not necessarily burn the fuses in the fuse box. When a short occurs and starts the meltdown of the insulation of wires, the fuses cease to function. The fusible links' purpose is important at this time.
More on the fusible link:
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Truck looks great Oding you must be suffering mixed emotions , i can only compare it to reading a good book you want to see the end but you don't want it to finish .
With regards to the flexing wire , chaffing against each other is i assume what rubs through the insulation so glue them together with flexible sealant and shrink wrap and they can only bend as one wire .
With regards to the flexing wire , chaffing against each other is i assume what rubs through the insulation so glue them together with flexible sealant and shrink wrap and they can only bend as one wire .
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Iwan
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The fusible links are a very important part of the wiring system. Ive seen quite a few cruisers that dont have them anymore. So there's always a chance of the loom melting out if a future fault happens.
These are the puppies. . If you dont see them attached to your positive terminal. ... get them fitted!
These are the puppies. . If you dont see them attached to your positive terminal. ... get them fitted!
oding
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The feeling is what you say it is. A BJ40 is next on the line. I found this beauty. Untouched and still original 95%
Thanks for the advice Shayne, that is a big help.
Sorry, but movement against one another is essential. Do not glue them solid or they will fail. You will be trying to bend a bar of wires not a flexible loom and they will form pinched bends at points where they break away from the straight or original glued form. Far better to lay the wires together then put a loose twist in the whole lot, then you will see how much more easily they will bend without rubbing against one another. Put them in a casing or tube where they can move easily but not too much and they will last well. Lift (elevator) cable is really good for this as it has a close spiral, loads of French chalk and string packings.
The problem occurs where there are tight bends and movement and especially where the movement is like a hinge. The cores fracture and break causing hot spots, the insulation degrades and splits then you get wires touching one another. This would soon happen if glued together.
The fusible links as mentioned are simply high current fuses protecting the cables connecting to the battery. There are two ways to protect a cable,
1, make it of larger current carrying capacity than the short circuit current/time so that the battery current would be depleted before the cable were damaged. Starter cables for instance.
2, put a weak link (fuse) in as close to the source as possible wherever the cable size lessens. Hence fusible links or fuses are placed immediately adjacent to the battery + connection, and where the cable to the fuse box then splits into smaller circuits for lighting etc. then smaller fuses are added in line again protecting the cable or wire.
There are two types of fault, overload and short circuit. Both can be prevented by fitting a fuse at the supply end. Overload can be prevented by inserting a fuse anywhere in the line. You can perhaps protect 30A cable for example, against short circuit by inserting a 60A fuse as long as the short circuit would be big enough (say 300A) to blow it. However it would heat up and burn out with a long term overload of say 50A.
The fusible links are not there for overload but for short circuit protection of the cable they are connected to, they will be quite slow to blow but will be much faster than the cable would be damaged.
Fuses will NEVER become inoperative unless bridged or replaced with a higher rating than they should be (Don't do it people!!). One problem that can occur, is where several circuits run to the same place (door) and several earths (-) return back to a common point. If two 30A circuits touch together then to one of the 30A earth wires, then the earth wire can melt because it won't allow sufficient current to blow the two 30A fuses of the circuits feeding into the fault but the current drawn is enough to burn the insulation of the earth wire. In this case, any number of correct size fuses in line are not going to help.
It's worth remembering that a 30A fuse doesn't blow at 30A but that is the point where it will carry that current happily forever and a day. Depending on the fuse characteristic and what sort of life it has had, there will be a point at which it will blow instantly, for arguments sake let's say 60A. Between these two currents there will be a time 'curve'. Close to but over 30A it will take a long time to blow, the nearer to the 60A the shorter that time will be.
The problem occurs where there are tight bends and movement and especially where the movement is like a hinge. The cores fracture and break causing hot spots, the insulation degrades and splits then you get wires touching one another. This would soon happen if glued together.
The fusible links as mentioned are simply high current fuses protecting the cables connecting to the battery. There are two ways to protect a cable,
1, make it of larger current carrying capacity than the short circuit current/time so that the battery current would be depleted before the cable were damaged. Starter cables for instance.
2, put a weak link (fuse) in as close to the source as possible wherever the cable size lessens. Hence fusible links or fuses are placed immediately adjacent to the battery + connection, and where the cable to the fuse box then splits into smaller circuits for lighting etc. then smaller fuses are added in line again protecting the cable or wire.
There are two types of fault, overload and short circuit. Both can be prevented by fitting a fuse at the supply end. Overload can be prevented by inserting a fuse anywhere in the line. You can perhaps protect 30A cable for example, against short circuit by inserting a 60A fuse as long as the short circuit would be big enough (say 300A) to blow it. However it would heat up and burn out with a long term overload of say 50A.
The fusible links are not there for overload but for short circuit protection of the cable they are connected to, they will be quite slow to blow but will be much faster than the cable would be damaged.
Fuses will NEVER become inoperative unless bridged or replaced with a higher rating than they should be (Don't do it people!!). One problem that can occur, is where several circuits run to the same place (door) and several earths (-) return back to a common point. If two 30A circuits touch together then to one of the 30A earth wires, then the earth wire can melt because it won't allow sufficient current to blow the two 30A fuses of the circuits feeding into the fault but the current drawn is enough to burn the insulation of the earth wire. In this case, any number of correct size fuses in line are not going to help.
It's worth remembering that a 30A fuse doesn't blow at 30A but that is the point where it will carry that current happily forever and a day. Depending on the fuse characteristic and what sort of life it has had, there will be a point at which it will blow instantly, for arguments sake let's say 60A. Between these two currents there will be a time 'curve'. Close to but over 30A it will take a long time to blow, the nearer to the 60A the shorter that time will be.
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I think in my case, it was the latter scenario, Rich.
None of the fuses blew, and they were all correctly rated. But, the fuse box simply got very hot and melted. Even the plastic fuses melted, without blowing the conductors. It was really weird.
Anyway, couldn't see anything wrong with the wiring when I looked at it today. I'm going to consider making a rigid curved tube (duct) which could be fixed one end and then penetrate the door as it closes. I'll need to check radii and clearances, but the idea looks viable. Will certainly consider a remote fuse box.
Thanks all all for the comments, apologies, thread jack over Oding.
Keep up the wonderful work... And the BJ??? That will be a nice project
None of the fuses blew, and they were all correctly rated. But, the fuse box simply got very hot and melted. Even the plastic fuses melted, without blowing the conductors. It was really weird.
Anyway, couldn't see anything wrong with the wiring when I looked at it today. I'm going to consider making a rigid curved tube (duct) which could be fixed one end and then penetrate the door as it closes. I'll need to check radii and clearances, but the idea looks viable. Will certainly consider a remote fuse box.
Thanks all all for the comments, apologies, thread jack over Oding.
Keep up the wonderful work... And the BJ??? That will be a nice project
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oding
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I got the inner felt weatherstrip installed with a lot of patience. Hope the pictures will explain how I installed them.
I had to form the tabs to a rounded shape for it to fit the small hole where it will be inserted in. Once all the tabs are in the hole, press and hold the strip then bend the tab from inside the door panel.
I had to form the tabs to a rounded shape for it to fit the small hole where it will be inserted in. Once all the tabs are in the hole, press and hold the strip then bend the tab from inside the door panel.
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