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To buy or not to buy? How many KM/MI are too many....

TAB13

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Hi LC Owners, We have been looking to buy a used LC Prado for about 4 months now for our young family with 3 kids. This being our main car. and we live in Germany. So we will definitely be taking road trips for holidays 10 plus hours or so. We found one that fits the specs we like, but we are a little concerned with purchasing a car with 198,000 Kilometers for the price tag attached. We've talked them down to 14,000 Euro. We would really appreciate some perspective from owners on whether this would be a smart buy or not. Or if we should keep hunting.

It's a 2004 Executive D-4D 7 Seater 120 kW (163 PS)Diesel.

The pro's... it's had 1 owner, and it's been serviced at the same dealership that's selling it, so they have shared the full history, know the first owner, and all of the recent work done. Which includes: - New brakes 2 months ago, front and back - Pollen filter changed - 2 new batteries - new rear bumper from a fender bender ( we want to get parking sensors added here for additional 350 ) - new suspensions replaced in the back - Alternator has been changed out over the years- Crankshaft was replaced- Fuel injection replaced

We definitely want an LC or LC Prado, but we were hoping to stay under 150, 000 kilometers when purchasing. We've heard these cars are machines that seem to last forever. So having said that, should we anticipate any major costs in the next 50,000 kilometers or so? Would you recommend this as a pretty safe bet? Appreciate everyone's 2 cents here. Thanks!



























 
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Shayne

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Against any other car with the same miles price age and description a Landcruiser wins hands down .

My 2 cents worth .
 

StarCruiser

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Hi Tab and welcome.

It sounds like what should a good example you have there and at 120,000 miles or thereabouts it's got plenty of life left. You don't say what age the truck is? I cannot imagine why injection and crankshaft would need to be changed, might be worth looking into those if only out of curiosity as both are fairly major jobs. You haven't mentioned cam belt which is due in the next 2000km and will show a light on the dash (if it's anything like my 80). Check whether this has been done or not. Get the garage to put it on a ramp for you and check around underneath for rust and anything amiss. Take a good torch.

Have a look on eBay for similar vehicles and see what they are listed at which can give you an idea on its value. It does sound like it's been looked after. Does the price include a warranty? Can you post a link to it on here?

Looking forward to you being a Landcruiser owner. Oh, and posting some photos when you get to 15 posts.

There's others know more on these trucks specifically but hope the above helps for starters.

Best wishes

Richard
 
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TAB13

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Hi Richard,

Sorry for the confusion, I went and changed it above, it's a 2004. And the above work mentioned are recent fixes/replacements that the car has already undergone. So it's work commenced already.

Great advice on the putting it up at the garage, thanks for that. And we'll check on the Cam belt.

The price does not include warranty. We can pay 280 Euros extra and have up to 60% covered for the next year, and pay the difference.

We've been checking other cars similar on mobile.de and on the website it's posted for comparison. Seems to be close for the most part, but maybe a little higher, due to it being a Toyota dealership, so to be expected I guess.



We've just never bought a car with so much mileage on it for the price. Everything seems in order. Just want this car to last at least 5 years or so. We got screwed with a VW Passport Lemon, imagine that.. And don't want to dump 3 grande a year in repairs.

I can't post a URL to the site since I'm new here. We literally called within hours of it going up so we are first in line and will give it a proper drive this afternoon. It's definitely been looked after and we would do the same.

Thanks for all of your insight. We loved the LC we drove 2 days before looking at this one and are pretty pumped to get one.

Cheers,
T
 
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TAB13

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Thanks for your 2 cents Shayne! We've only heard great things about the Landcruiser, definitely helps hearing it reinforced for purchase.
 

clivehorridge

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I wouldn't be concerning myself about the mileage, I'd concentrate more on why it needed a new crank. That's a major component change and there must have been a reason for it. It would be good for you to know the story behind it.
 
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Rob Cowell

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To understand potential suspension costs it would be useful to know if you are looking at an LC3, LC4 or LC5. And know what is meant specifically by "new suspensions" in your replaced list.

I have a 2005 that has done 215,000km (bought it with 120,000km). Mine takes a bit of a daily beating on some very rocky roads, but only for a couple of miles a day. I've needed to replace every suspension bush on the back, and most on the front. Plus all coils and dampers, plus both front wheel bearings.

Front bushes are probably most tricky / expensive, because the old bolts seize on and are awkward to cut and drive out. I replaced the entire wishbones at about £300/side in parts.

For peace of mind it would be worth knowing if the engine was covered under the recall for injector seats. That one may be too old to have needed it, and with that mileage the engine might already have died. Worryingly I would think that if it had sludged up the crankshaft may have been what copped it, and I'd be worried about what else might have suffered. The affected chassis numbers are shown in this thread : http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/43423-120-D4D-injector-recall

They are great cars, and those miles wouldn't worry me. But I'd want to know about the crankshaft change.
 

TAB13

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Hi Clive,

Thanks for the tip, added that to the list of inquiries as a high priority!

Much appreciated. Loving this community already. Will report back after we hit the dealer this afternoon.

T
 

TAB13

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Hi Rob,

The back suspensions were the ones recently changed. The previous owner was a Day mom so lugged little kids around in a small town. Nothing too crazy I imagine. Not sure if it's an LC3, LC4 or LC5. Just know it's an Executive, will find out.

Being the rookies we are with this car, I'm looking into everything posted above and appreciate the link to the recall on the injector seats to be sure. And the Crankshaft is our number one inquiry thanks to everyone's feedback.

Curious, at approximately how many K's did you have to replace the wishbones?

Thanks again!
T
 
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StarCruiser

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I don't think you need worry about the wishbones Tab. Firstly it's been serviced by Toyota man dealers so will almost certainly have had any work needed done on it. Secondly if it's been mums taxi all its life it has likely seen nothing but Tarmac beneath its wheels so the suspension bushings will have had a very easy life. It's an 11 year old car with average mileage but it's a Landcruiser so far better built than the average hatchback.
 

Simon5030

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Well, where to start!
Mine had 70k on the clock and its now done 85k in 1.5years, when i got it they had just fitted new front calipers, discs and pads, since having it its had
Crank polish
New shells
New oil pump
New compressor and clutch
New back discs and pads (calipers are next!)
All new engine oil seals
Gearbox output seal
etc,etc

Just spent Sunday freeing off a siezed caliper

I think i just landed a bad one but above all i dont want to sell it, love working on it and fixing problems (dont like paying bills though :thumbdown:) my neighbours now get worried if they dont see me at weekends under the car! :laughing-rolling:
Recently drove all the way back from Scotland, 9hrs and felt like i had just drove round the corner, best comfy car i have ever driven!

Lots to consider but they are built to repair rather than throw away!

Simon
 

BriComp

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It is in the age range for Injector seals. Mine is a late 2004 LC4 and had to have a complete set of injectors due to the seals recall.

I suspect that the one you are looking at had to have it's crankshaft replaced when the Injector seals were done ( assuming they were ).
If that was the case I would consider it a gross effect of oil contamination and would wonder what else had been affected and not replaced/repaired.

Some further detective work to be done.
 

Nuclear Chicken

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The only significant downside to the LC is fuel consumption. The engine is capable of big mileage but is a crude bag of bolts compared to anything German. Without putting a spanner in the works have you considered an XC90?


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Bogus

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My 2 Eurocents worth

Id say its probably just on the right side of pricey, but not overly so and with a full dealer history the mileage would not be a concern to me. I would ask about the injector seals as I'm led to believe that prior to them being a recall , all that was done was to boroscope the oil pick up to check for coking and if any evident to change the seals. It was only later after a few expensive failures that the aluminium coated seals were introduced. Timing belt Im sure will have been done, dealers like to do stuff like that especially as it costs the customer money, but its a very simple job and to remove doubts the kind of thing Id do on purchase regardless. If you do take it I think Id rather spend a euro or two on the warranty than on parking sensors, but you can of course do both. If its an LC 5 I would be more wary due to the air suspension, but thats just me. Not sure how things work in Deutschland but If a main dealer is selling it he probably has some confidence in it. Here in UK it would be off to auction at that age. Id definitely ask about the crankshaft and why it needed replacing, If a dealer was doing all he was meant to do regarding checks on oil pick, replacing injector seals, it probably should never have got to the oil starvation stage, but if the dealer did the work on the replacement i doubt if they would have been shy at replacing anything else that they thought needed it, unless of course Toyota were paying for it due to the injector seal issue and their own neglect. If this is not THE ONE for you, don't worry, there's always another.
 

Rob Cowell

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Did my wishbones at about 120k miles. Could have pressed new bushes into them, but I could get genuine wishbones (which come with bushes and ball-joint fitted) through a UK supplier for not much more than new bushes from Toyota. I agree that if yours has pootled about on Tarmac these are less likely to go. My coils went at about 80k miles. Shocks broke at around 110k miles. I had replaced all the rear control arm bushes by 110k miles. Be interesting to hear from people who only drive on Tarmac, and don't tow.

I don't share some people's view that main dealer servicing makes these things less likely to go. The difference between no play and some play in bushes is pretty small. hopefully a dealer inspection means there is no play today, but so does an MOT or TUV. There's not much in terms of maintenance that helps.
 
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Beau

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The only significant downside to the LC is fuel consumption. The engine is capable of big mileage but is a crude bag of bolts compared to anything German. Without putting a spanner in the works have you considered an XC90?


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Having just done some work on a XC90, I'd say avoid them. They'll be good for the first 120k miles but after that they have plenty of issues. Transmission is the biggest, especially with the 6 cylinder engine. That's a engine out job so things get expensive quickly. And I wouldn't say the LC is terrible on mileage. Most D4D engines are averaging 25mpg+ on long runs, some closer to 30mpg.
 

Nuclear Chicken

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6 cyl petrol XC yes, that has a bad gearbox. The D5 is bullet proof and with the engine will do mega miles. And will do 38mpg easy.


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GeekOKent

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Tab, rear suspension you said? Is that air suspension height adjustable ? If so, that's an lc5 varient. If you get the VIN for the vehicle, it can be looked up.

14k eur seems par for a well maintained lc5 spec.

Typically, the 100k miles mark brings you the timing belt, brake calipers, bushes maybe things like that. And as has already been mentioned these trucks are made to be fixed easily. Spare parts are usually easy to find. J120 is still in primary support with totota worldwide.

Apart from the injector recall and the crank (!) needing work, check the under carriage for rust as well. Make sure the vsc and lockers work and the atrac system is intact. You may not intend to use these, but faults in there can usually be non optional to fix longer term.

Then consider the practical side of things... with all 3 rows of seats there isnt much boot space. We struggle to get 2 maclaren prams in there and these fold down quite well. Also since you need to drop one side of the 2nd row seats to get into the back, if you need 3 car seats 2 of them will need to go in to the 3rd row. And the 3rd row has no anchors or isofix.

Btw is that a 4 speed or 5 speed auto gearbox? They switched sometime in 2004 /2005 to the 5speed and i hear its by far a better setup for the d4d.

On the milage front... I have done 436miles on 53 ltrs of BP diesel today.

In terms of alternatives... only the discovery 4 compares. The tuareg / xc90 / x5 / ML and GL series etc are just big cars. Might as well look at a ford galaxy or a vw sharan instead. I had a tuareg for a few months back in 2013. I have had a xc90 d5 rental in singapore for a month. The tuareg is a better car than the xc90 i feel. The j120 is a better vehicle all around.

As the old Chinese saying goes.. if someone was to gift me an xc90 I wouldnt say no. But i wouldnt go out and buy one, having tasted what the options are.

Just realised you said parking sensors - all LC5 sold with them as standard. Actually even LC4 has parking sensors as standard iirc.

Hope some of this helps,
 

TAB13

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Appreciate everyone kicking in their 2 cents. It's been extremely valuable.

We drove the LC 2004 and it was a nice ride, but not as nice as the 2005 we had driven days before. The steering had a bit more tug and it pulled to the left, which we know is fixable. It just didn't seem nearly as nice as the 2005 drive.

The info on the injector seals and crankshaft as well as suspension turned out to be very helpful. The salesman seemed decent and knew the previous owner but only knew what he was reading on the history. He said they get about 1 LC every 6 months so he was not very knowledgeable on the car. When I inquired as to whether it was an LC 3, LC 4 or LC 5 he came back with, "It's a J120". So enough said. He wasn't familiar with the Injector Seals history, crankshaft etc, which also turned us off. But one of the main turn offs was the Horse smell in the car. Apparently the woman had horses on the weekend, she didn't use the hitch, but probably had her saddle in there, and we don't think that smell is coming out, similar to a smokers car. Not to mention that might explain the back suspensions depending on what she put in the back. So we decided to pass on this one. And as for the dealer confidence/auction, looks like they might end up doing that, and they were letting us check it out. It wasn't supposed to be posted on the car site.

As for the XC90, that's actually been put on the list. We're driving a 6cyl Diesel today. Seems to have the bigger boot we need, and mileage and safety are great. But noting everyone's feedback above. much appreciated. Q7 is also on there.

@GeekoKent, we hear you on the practicality for all of the aforementioned reasons. That was also a concern when driving the 7 seater. We also have a bugaboo, a MaClaren, and 3 seats with isofix. So all things considered, this probably isn't the best option for our first car and long road trips. The Sharan and the Galaxy just aren't as sexy, but definitely have the space, but it's just not us. We have looked at the Chrysler Grand Voyager /Lancia as well. It seems a bit sexier inside and crazy amounts of space. We're just not sure on the reliability and how long it will last. And We're over the VW for the momen,so the Tuareg and Sharan are out. I think we dropped at least 6K in our Passat this year, a 2007. Not to mention the overall spend the last 4 years and we only have 178 KM on it, bought with 70KM. And we didn't love our Golf. We also added the Discovery to our list to drive this week. For some reason we thought the 7 seater was only in the newer models that had them,and the Defender. What I've seen for our price range is also high in KM. Which means that more repairs will likely be coming. But it's a solid car.

As for the LC, we do think we still want one. We are thinking it's going to be our second car and maybe a 5 seater could be perfect. It's an A to B car, to work and hauling the kids to nursery and kindergarten. And we know it's a fun weekend car. We have 6 months until we need that car so we have more time to find THE ONE that works for us. We've seen alot of 2005's out there with 100-150K plus on there, but from what you all are saying, that's not a major concern. Feeling much more confident with the info above from everyone that this could be a great 2nd car for us.

Great community you have here. Hoping one day we can be a part of it as official LC owners :icon-biggrin:
 

Nuclear Chicken

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There are only two real options in that list imo. The XC and the LC. There is no 6 cyl diesel: the D5 is a 5 cyl. It is seriously well sorted family car with a decent amount ability and more so than an X5 or a Q7 for example. The sensible part of me would go for an XC and the slightly more 'what the heck' would have the LC for its complete go anywhere get out of my way ability. Interestingly, my XC was a good bit more to insure than the LC. Offset that against more diesel used by the LC and it's maybe not that big a difference over a year.
The XC will undoubtedly be the saferb in the event of a smash and it's probably one of the safest cars on the road. Tough decision.


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