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Wagon Gear - 80 Series Tailgate Lids

Hello everyone, sorry to crash your party a bit, this is Kevin from over in the states.
There is a link-back to this thread from my build thread on Mud so I made the mistake of poking my head in, I usually just stay out of things like this but in this case I really feel as though I should address a few things.

As you guys know, I had a nice email exchange with Justin about some 80 lids for the UK, now I see part of it posted here and it looks as though folks are misconstruing the info a bit.
I've sent a few lids over to the UK and Europe and you guys have always been great to work with, I don't consider international sales to be very cost effective with the exorbitant shipping rates and the associated fees and percentages, but I did want to address some of the concerns here.

First off, in my email I stated that these cost way too much money to start with. :p
My typical sales pitch is included: "way too much money to spend on a little bit more storage space"
They are very expensive for me to make in the quality and manner that I am willing to make them, the only way to change that and still be true to myself would be to not make them.

The link-back to my build thread from this thread seems be intended to support the conclusion that I am leading a pleasant life getting rich off the good graces of the cruiser crowd (I'm exaggerating there for sure). Even though WagonGear is indeed paying for that build, and made the work possible, (the costs of which I am in the process of breaking down to post in that thread) I used every single penny of profit I had saved from the last 5 years of running the business to pay for that build. In the end I am way over budget, I think it adds up to about 6k in total costs and my wife and I had to put 3k of that back into the business account from our personal accounts in order to cover expenses. So if that is getting rich off WagonGear, so be it. :p


I would like to address the concerns of Chaz in particular though since you break down my email to Justin to find fault.
You seem to be indicating that I have some gains that are ill-got or that I am not being forthright in my comments?

To address the specific things you pointed out:
I work out of a two car garage.
My shop/garage is pictured extensively in that very same build thread linked from here. It's a nice garage, nothing to complain about for sure, but it is indeed just me, working in a two car garage, and it's a rental as well, we don't even own the building.

I have hats and shirts for sale (and stickers, I don't sell the stickers though) with my logo on them, not sure what that proves.
Folks seem to really want to show support with these items, they are there by popular request.
It's pretty cool for me though, I get a real kick out of seeing a truck out driving around with one of my stickers on the window.
(I should also mention that the shirts and hats have been product trades with cruiser folks who have embroidery businesses, would not be able to afford them otherwise)

All the lids are the same price for everyone.
There is no retail markup, they are all wholesale. I have priced them as best I can to try and cover expenses and my investments and everyone pays the same price.
There are restoration shops over here that order several sets of lids and panels from me every year, they pay the same as the guy who only buys one panel.

I mentioned that I have worked with a number of people on international shipping, and I offer my warning that in most cases it ends up being a "costly pain in the butt". This is not "pleading for sympathy", I am stating that international orders cost much too much to ship (added onto an already too expensive product) and tend to incur other fees and charges on top of all that.

I am very open about my process in general, I have actively helped many others make their own versions, and I like to see that happen.
Here in the states I have set numerous folks up with latches and parts, and even folks here on your own forum, It was nice to help Callum in what small way I could and seeing the results of what he came up with was a real kick, he was kind enough to post photos from his build in a thread in my Mud vendor forum.

As far as making a living off of people who want my stuff, I'm not.
This has been a hobby business for me. I have used it to help make ends meet and help keep our truck running in good shape (along with massive investments of my time and labor of course). For the past 5 years that WagonGear has been an official business I have had a full-time day job, in addition to working three other part time jobs. For most of the past 9 months we have been trying to run this business full-time in order to facilitate a cross-county move to a state we have wanted to call home for awhile now (and in combination with only two other part time jobs :p)
As a full-time thing it does not make ends meet and it falls far short of being able to support my family.
I have once again been interviewing for positions in order to bring in enough income to keep us in good order, it's a good thing that my wife is a nurse because WagonGear only supports itself and our Land Cruiser, that is the entire extent of the return on the investment.

I guess in the end, the long and the short of it is that in this particular case I am taking this all too personally. :p
But the fact is that I do take this personally, I am personally invested in the cruiser community, I do this because I love these old trucks and the community that goes with them.
I'm not out to get rich and I wish my products didn't have to be so damn expensive.

cheers,
KR
 
Hi kR

We all have items that some people snap your hand off and others think your to expensive. That will never change. I sell items that people can buy cheaper elsewhere and visa versa.

In my opinion that's just how it is.

Karl
 
Thanks for coming and setting the record straight Kevin, I must admit I thought the previous comments were somewhat harsh. I have coveted your tailgates through 2 previous 80's, a 100 and now another 80 series and if I was on the same continent would be pestering you day and night to get me one done :mrgreen:
 
Hi Kevin,
I didn't say your gains were ill-gotten I merely meant you run a business and as such you need to make a living from it, that's fair enough. I still think the same.
Your company supplies parts and accessories for 4x4's which have to be financially attractive before we will buy them, we originally thought these tailgate lids were going to be about £250 but turned out to be nearer £400 and as much as I would like to have one it's more than I can afford for what is to use your words "way too much money to spend on a little bit more storage space" your prices are not exorbitant but add in the shipping cost/import duty/VAT on top of the part cost and it becomes too much for me.
Shame, because from the video it looks a great item and easily installed, I would still be interested if there were any way of reducing the cost.
Chas (with an 's')
 
Thanks for setting that straight....

As I said in my post(s) I recognise the quality of the product and the time saving it offers. Definitely one I'd be interested in adding to the truck in the future... Also as discussed via e-mail the killer is the import duty+VAT (especially as this is on the shipping costs too) which is the bit that's pushing this into the 'too expensive for a little extra storage' IMO.

I've re-read my previous posts and I can see I may too have sounded over harsh :oops: - this was not how it was intended - so if you're feeling at all put out by my comments, then I sincerely apologise.

I guess what I was trying to say, was that its disappointing that a bulk order doesn't or couldn't attract a discount. That's not to say you're making a huge profit or even that one was due...

FWIW I'm very impressed with your rebuild project and hence why I was reading it in the first place. So in short I'm still a big fan of your products and hopefully I'll get my hands on them at some point :mrgreen:
 
Cossack said:
we originally thought these tailgate lids were going to be about £250 but turned out to be nearer £400 ...

Yep that'll be my fault (for getting the initial numbers wrong):oops:

Can't believe I forgot Import duty and VAT :doh:

Kevin's been very helpful, clear and upfront on his costs from the start... If we didn't live in Rip off Britain I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation :violin:
 
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Thanks guys, this is pretty much the case:
kevinmrowland said:
I guess in the end, the long and the short of it is that in this particular case I am taking this all too personally. :p
I think we are all actually on the same page, I just got a bit bent out of shape on this one. Typically I have a really thick skin, just bad timing at the moment.
It's tax-time over here, so that makes money things a bit more sensitive, I'm coming off rebuilding our cruiser which was way too expensive (still much cheaper than a new car, and that's what it is for us) and I've also been applying to positions and interviewing, so the fact that WagonGear is not financially viable is on the forefront of my mind.
None of that is of any concern to you fellows though, I just felt kind of bad that you might have thought I was turning a cold shoulder to the crew across the Atlantic.
My Mom was born in London, Nanny (grandmother) was from a bit north of there, Granddad was one of those cantankerous bastards from over in Ireland. I have wanted to explore the islands for the longest time, especially up into northern Scotland. If I can ever find a way to make that happen I'll try to smuggle a few lids in as luggage as a peace offering. :p
 
kevinmrowland said:
I'm coming off rebuilding our cruiser which was way too expensive (still much cheaper than a new car, and that's what it is for us)
It looks stunning... definitely something to be proud of.

kevinmrowland said:
I've also been applying to positions and interviewing, so the fact that WagonGear is not financially viable is on the forefront of my mind.
Best of luck with the job hunting...

kevinmrowland said:
None of that is of any concern to you fellows though, I just felt kind of bad that you might have thought I was turning a cold shoulder to the crew across the Atlantic.
Not put out in the slightest, in hindsight it was poorly worded so it clearly sounded over harsh. :oops:

kevinmrowland said:
My Mom was born in London, Nanny (grandmother) was from a bit north of there, Granddad was one of those cantankerous bastards from over in Ireland. I have wanted to explore the islands for the longest time, especially up into northern Scotland. If I can ever find a way to make that happen I'll try to smuggle a few lids in as luggage as a peace offering. :p
With or without the peace offering you'd be more than welcome... :thumbup: I'll happily provide plenty of cold 'proper' pints as my peace offering if you're passing through.

Until then - make sure you hang around... :thumbup:
 
If you do get over here Kevin we have a monthly gathering at a pub in the city, you'll be more than welcome to join us, with or without peace offerings :dance:

That reminds me, when is our next one chaps :?: it seems ages since the last one
 
Could not resist jumping in.....

I know these products and have used/installed them a bit. Honestly, worth every penny. Small scale international shipping out of the US is a giant PITA. I understand that issue only too well. I also know the demand for these products is very high in the US.

I would be happy to handle these as a pass through item to the UK. Not sure how cheap we can ship but I think £40 per would be about right + inland carriage in the UK. To save me grief I would ask we do this in sets of 5 and all transaction is handled directly with Wagon gear and I act as the shipper only.
 
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