Winch carrier for Fiery (née Free Steel...........)

[Jon Wildsmith]

yes that's how it should be done, in a rough criss cross pattern, otherwise as Giles told you the rope can pull through to a lower layer under so much tension that it's very difficult to pull it back through again. You can still make a neat pattern with it though for the OCD's You can interleave side by side layers and criss cross layers to get more rope on the drum if it's a struggle with all the layers criss crossed.

 

[TonyP]

Just the beginning or all the way to he end Jon?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

all the way to the end Tony. It's not a problem when you're spooling in, it's when you come to get the rope off again that it can be a pain.

 

[TonyP]

Yup did notice that a couple of times with LB, especially after first use following cleaning the rope and winding it on with no load on. Good tip for the future, thanks

 

[Chris]

Well I know exactly what he means but frankly if there is anyone who can actually lay their rope on under tension like that then I'd like to meet them. What you can do is lay on then stop let the rope out lay the slack back on then winch again. Now it's probably night time! Just winch in that's my advice. Now if you are pulling at an angle from the start with all your rope out I would advise the above procedure. If all your rope builds up in one corner it will burst your tie bars. But on a straight pull just press and hold
Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

if you press and hold I would fetch the rope off and rewind it right afterwards. Dealing with a stuck rope when you can move the truck about is easy, you can drive up to a tree at just the right distance to let the winch pull the rope through but if you're stuck in a hole you can find your winch is effectively useless if there's nothing at just the right distance to pull on.

 

[sae70]

Giles dropped the new thimble in to me yesterday

This is a different beast to the one that came fitted to my synthetic rope

I guess I'll have to spread it open a little to get it into the eye of the hook

I also made a couple of small changes to my winch contactor box, the isolation key and my idle up spacer yesterday

Firstly following Lincomb and Bens winch failure and reading another forum members thoughts about carrying a spare contactor I decided it would be prudent to make it so that it was very easy/quick to remove the top of my contactor box while up to my nuts in mud. It was originally held on by four tiny little domed socket cap heads that are a proper fiddle to remove due to space So I removed them and have secured the lid on with a couple of bits of bungee cord. I can now remove the contactor box cover/lid in less than a couple of seconds Great for inspecting for ingress or faults and will also allow me to easily & quickly operate the winch by shorting the connections should the contactor die mid winching

You can also see in the first photo that I've binned off the idea of using a cable gland shroud to prevent water getting into the isolator following Chris's revelation that the removable isolator handle has a mid position that allows it to used as a shround without operating the switch

I've also lengthened it's lanyard and clipped it into one of the air-box securing clips in case it decides to jump out of the switch one day

I've done a similar thing with my idle up spacer that worked very well during winching at Lincomb until I jumped into the truck to drive while winching and the spacer fell out when I gave the truck some beans never to be seen again So a new spacer, longer lanyard and also clipped into one of the air-box clips

 

[sae70]

Before I fitted my new synthetic rope to the winch I cut a couple of meters off it so I could have a play at splicing it while watching Downton Abbey

I had a bit of a trawl through the Tin-Ter-Net and YouTube to get some ideas of how too, then started to have a play

My first task was to find some thing in the house that would work as a Fid and a large darning needle I would love to get the proper things but at £40+ I decided to see what I could come up with In the end it came down to a wooded chop stick and a Bic Biro with the core removed. If both used with a little tape to attach the rope to them when required work very well indeed

I do have a couple of questions of you more experienced synthetic rope splicers though

Whats the best method to use to attach my new tubed thimble to my rope? There's a couple of methods out there, some suggesting different holes between rope entry and some suggesting passing through the rope at 45degrees. Is there some thing that's recognised as being a better method over another?

One I've been looking at is called a locked Brummel, but i'm not certain this is the best method to use with a tubed thimble

 

[sae70]

Popped outside this afternoon to do a couple of small electrical mods on the truck and give it a good hoover out and internal wipe through following Lincomb, but ended up splicing my new thimble in Never did like cleaning or electrics come to that

In this photo you can see the new thimble with one of my one meter practice bits of synthetic rope on it and look at the colour difference!! Same bit of rope as on the winch, just been handled more and the colour has rubbed off

Decided to use the locked Brummel Splice in the end, but the one that requires the whole length of the rope to be removed from the winch and then fed through the working part

Even the boys came out to lend a hand

But this was a bit more of a worry Now put the hammer down before you brake something darling

 

[Ben]

Nice work Steven.

That new thimble looks nice and strong.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

That looks like a good strong splice nicely done.

 

[sae70]

My new snatch blocks were delivered today

 

[sae70]

Following a resent trip away that involved some pretty continuously steady winch use over a four hour period I decided to remove my Chinese Albright style solenoids/contactor as the winch had started to become a little intermittent towards the end and the solenoid box required a good tap on top to get the winch winching in, winching out was fine.

Interestingly another vehicle with an almost brand new Superwinch had in the end complete failure of the winch that again was traced to some thing to do with the Chinese Albright style solenoids/contactor!!!

So took mine off and stripped it apart

Here's some photos;

The first thing to note was that the baker-lite style top housing started to fall apart once I'd removed the lower half! A bit baffling and no idea why these parts where coming away?! Maybe due to a previouse attempt to get it apart by someone (winch was second hand to me), vibration, dropped or maybe just poor quality material and construction.

First signs of an issue, some discoloration of the copper!

Then this! Heavy discoloration due to heat and a very pitted contact. Pulled out of the 'WINCH IN' side of the solenoid!

You can also see in this photo some green discoloration due to water ingress down one of the connection posts!

If you look hard enough you can also see signs of water ingress down each of the connection posts.

Top 'WINCH OUT' contacts, bottom 'WINCH IN' contacts.

Left 'WINCH OUT' contacts with some corrosion due to moisture! Right 'WINCH IN' contacts burnt and pitted, maybe as a result of corrosion caused by water ingress!

On the 'WINCH IN' contacts some of the plastic component has also suffered (melted) due to heat!

Anyway, gave it all a good clean up and popped it all back together

No longer as good looking as it once was and I fear that its IP rating is no longer as high either, but it's back on the truck and working fine for now

All things considered though I think it's time for a new one, so was about to hit the place order for a brand new genuine Albright one from Devon 4x4 when I stumbled over these.

It's a TG Thompson extra heavy duty 500Amp winch solenoid as used by Tigerz11 being sold as the best winch upgrade available!

The TG Thompson solenoid is THE NEW solenoid to take over from the Allbright /Durite style solenoids.​

During the last few years winches have been developed using Allbright / Durite style solenoids, they have performed well with few faults in the search for better electrical reliability.​

But there is always room for improvement​

The TG Thompson solenoid is the new updated solenoid to replace the Allbright / Durite style.​

With a higher quality of internal components and a much larger surface area for the contacts, to allow better conductivity so the amps required can do their job, this can be seen by the external wiring points.​

These are even more suited to 6hp motors and the like, can be used on any 3 post winch. TG THOMPSON solenoids are fitted as standard to Tigerz11 (the leading Australian winch), and are suitable to upgrade all leading winches such as Warn, Superwinch, Warrior, Champion, TMax etc​

Already there are some copies coming so make sure it’s a​

TG THOMPSON​

DON'T GET STRANDED THIS YEAR

​

​

I'm liking the sound of these Has anyone seen inside one or used one that could comment

You see the Albright solenoid would be fine I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's going to be the same inside as the Chinese copy ones. Just made to better tolerances and maybe with slightly better material. This though looks like a whole new beast with a much higher Amperage capacity than the 100Amp Albright's.

 

[Chris]

As always, a classic and thorough post my friend. We've come to expect nothing less.

I asked David Bowyer about swapping my Goldfish (King One) solenoids for Albirghts. His response (remember he sells them) was pretty much if you want to waste you money, why not just give to me to look after for you!. In his view, the KO ones were sufficiently close to the AB ones that it made no difference. Now I have to say, I haven't had any issues at all with mine and I have two and they get used and abused pretty regularly. They have been submerged, set fire to, thrashed until glowing (OK not quite) and they have performed well. I think JW had some problems but that may have been low battery output from memory. My rear one is outside under the rear cross member and is regulalry encased in mud like a Romany hedgehog. I have fitted a pair of Lodar remotes now as the only issues I have had have all been lead or remote related. Expensive yes, but when you have a three tonne Toyota boulder stuck, you need reliability. No good having to cross your fingers each time you need it. I would be interested in super high quality solenoids though. I have also been looking at those very noce solenoids that Warren put up. I'd use one on a switch to connect / isolate the winch instead of a manual rally style switch. I bought one of those monster switches at the 4x4 show last month. That does feel like HD quality. But I liek the idea of being able to remotely isolate stuff like rear batteries and winches etc instead of having to grapple under the bonnet with a plastic key. No point rigging up a top quality winch though a £4.00 switch.

Maybe we could work up a deal on something.

C

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Yep the solenoid supplied with the GF I got from DB failed after very little use but outside the warranty period. It had fallen apart inside, very poor quality.

 

[Chris]

What did you go with in the end then Jon?

C

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

An Albright from DB. From the outside it looked identical to what came with the GF ...

 

[sae70]

Very interesting information there Chris and pretty much as I'd thought really. It would be interesting to deconstruct an Albright and compare the insides to a Chinese copy. I guess this is what DB has done, so there would be little or no need. Looking inside my one it looks like there has been a small amount of water ingress that I'd assumed had caused corrosion on the contacts and thus the failure. Looking at the photos again though I also wonder if the green discolouration has been caused by the flux during the soldering process and just not cleaned off afterwards. Maybe the Albright ones would be a little cleaner inside and better put together. One of the chaps I was with last weekend has a rear mounted Warn M6000 with no isolator as he feels it would be a weak point and makes a fairly good argument for not having one at all! I had a look at putting one of those single pole contractors in as an remotely controlled isolator myself when I did the winch installation, but didn't bother as I'm tight.

Did you have a look inside the Albright solenoid Jon?

i think that I shall give the chap selling the TG Thompson solenoid a call today. I do wonder if it will fit inside the TDS winch solenoid housing! Not such a massive issue for me as all of mine is mounted under the bonnet, but for others with the winch solenoid housing still mounted on the winch it may make this upgrade a little more complex if it doesn't!

Im kind of swinging 80% more towards the TG Thompson contractor just to be different

 

[Chris]

Essentially, many of the components in the TDS GF KO solenoid pack look up to the job. Those big copper contactors are capable of carrying the current I'd suggest. Not sure if the weakness is like you say, weather proofing or build quality. HAving taken apart one of those commonly available isolators, I certainly don't want to put all that winching current through a penny washer. Rubbish. It has to be wired big all the way. I didn't used to put isolators in. But having had a solenoid jam in the past and the winch just keep going, I do feel they are quite important. I'm interested in the Thompson too. Maybe more for the rear as it's so exposed. At least that would generate a spare TDS one for emergencies. Not that I have every had one fail as I said and I really have used them a lot. I guess you could use one with a manual switch to isolate the winch. At least you know it can handle the current. Thing about a cut off is that it also provides a convenient join too. Makes taking winches off, bumpers off etc easier at times depending on your set up of course,. But in the case of my rear winch, a join is very handy. I can't get to the rear battery that quickly. DB was telling me that these are best mounted vertically so that gravity assists in the opening of the contacts. Trying to work out from your pics if this is correct. But in the winch bridge, it's laid flat as it comes from the factory!

Hmm

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I didn't look inside the Albright, you could try asking Gav to now he's got it The round contact pad(s) had fallen off on the winch in bar on the one that failed iirc, don't seem to have any pictures.