Winch Size

[Jon Wildsmith]

A 12k with a bowmotor2 was my intention but I haven't done testing the motor it came with yet I do have to keep reminding myself that most of my knowledge of electric winches is second hand and based on observation of Warn and cheap rubbish winches. I can stall a 10.5k hydraulic very easily though, hardly have to try with an overloaded beached or bogged 80

 

[Graham]

The winch comes with 35mm cable. I asked about upping that. They said that it wasn't necessary. That was the cable it needed. Unless you are in serious competitions, I wouldn't make it any harder than it needs to be. I appreciate that it's a question worth asking, but the answer is, just connect it to the main battery. That's all it needs. Most 4x4s only have one battery. They manage just fine. Remembering that some LRs have the batter under the seat too, so there are cable losses there.
I wasn't suggesting that you'd connect it in series Dear Boy, I was saying that you COULD end up connecting it in series. People read these posts and then go off and do weird things.

Using a snatch block is the best way to help the motor. It doesn't so much allow you to pull twice as much as halve the load on the motor. Making it grunt and banging a trillion amps down it is a recipe for heating it up more quickly and having it trip out.

Chris

Whilst it is of course true that a snatch block will more than double the winch speed and more than halve the amp draw, in marginal situations

Does a snatch block still allow the winch to rotate the same speed, but the required pull is halved? therby, giving the winch motor less work, and taking twice as long to do the job?

Or am I thinking of a pulley block?

http://www.google.com.hk/imglanding?q=p ... 80&bih=617

Graham

 

[pugwash]

A 12k with a bowmotor2 was my intention but I haven't done testing the motor it came with yet I do have to keep reminding myself that most of my knowledge of electric winches is second hand and based on observation of Warn and cheap rubbish winches. I can stall a 10.5k hydraulic very easily though, hardly have to try with an overloaded beached or bogged 80

hmm bowmotor 2. there's a couple of nice 6.5hp motors running around at the moment- would be a nice upgarde. Have you looked at overvolting the motor? 24v on the goldfishes semm to work pretty well.

The air operated freespool is damn smooth too- the freespool on the TDs' are pretty good though- far far better than an 8274.

Like you stalling a 10.5k hydro isn't that hard with an 80- although you can push a MM to 12.5klb without too many issues- the winch mount tends to give up before the winch though!

 

[Chris]

Graham, there are lots of 'it depends' on these things, but when you double the line with a pulley / snatch block the line speed is effectively halved. So yes the motor can run at the same speed but the vehicle will move half the rate. It goes onto the drum at the same speed of course. I think that question is does it halve the load on the motor or allow you to pull effectively double with the same is one I shall leave to the experts. But I have seen test set ups where you can see the amp draw etc under load and from what I could see, doubling made the motor more efficient in pulling the same, but slower. I think it's probably a mixture of the lot. Test conditions are not the same as being in a muddy hole. I tend to double at every opportunity as I prefer to move the object vehicle with more control than single line pull. Not because of the other advantages it gives, generally.

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I don't think I'll be going as far as overvolting, not yet anyway I'm still slowly being lulled into thinking an electric winch might be ok for my needs before I throw too much extra money / time at it. Bowmotor2 seems like an easy and reliable upgrade without increasing the install complexity at all and I have room for the extra length so why not

 

[pugwash]

Does a snatch block still allow the winch to rotate the same speed, but the required pull is halved? therby, giving the winch motor less work, and taking twice as long to do the job?

Or am I thinking of a pulley block?

http://www.google.com.hk/imglanding?q=p ... 80&bih=617

Graham

Snatch and puley block one and the same (well not quite- a snatch was legs that spread- hence the name!- tecchnically a pulley block is fixed in place).

with a hydraulic winch that works at a fixed speed then a snatch block can be used to halve the load on the winch, with the consequential halving of speed.

An electrical setup is more interesting- as you know an electric winch starts to slow down as load is applied to the motor. Just before the winch fully stalls then you will hardly be pulling at any speed at all. Whats interesting is that the slow down is decidedly not linear- in fact its entirely logarithmic (if not worse). So the speed doesn't typically drop off until about 75% of load is applied, at which point it starts to drop off very quickly.

Hence if you use a snatch block on an electric motor that is getting close to stalling, you may find you quadruple the speed of the motor- obviously you've halved the vehicular speed (because you're using the snatch block), but you will still find the vehicle runs quicker, with more power.

Its still a ballache to setup the snatch bock- its much nicer not to ahve to bother!

 

[Chas]

Digressing slightly, I've just seen advertised, a replacement winch rope that is webbing not a 'round' rope. any opinions?

 

[Paul_Humphreys]

Digressing slightly, I've just seen advertised, a replacement winch rope that is webbing not a 'round' rope. any opinions?

Yes, don't waste you money on it.

As for winch size, I have a 12000 (TDS) one as the 9000 (X9) I had before was not good enough. Yes it would work with a snatch block (I always carry 2 as you can change the route of the pull). You do not need any winch as if you use enough snatch blockes you can pull a 80 series out by hand!!

Paul

 

[chriscolleman]

I've got one of those Warn xd9000i things.

Single line pull is at its limits for an 80 especially when it is standing there with all 4 churning in the mud and trying to drive on its diffs.

I mostly use mine for tensioning trees when lumberjacking and the occasional high centered mistake.

I'd like a winch that takes after the cruiser, steady, sturdy, doesn't let you down and keeps on going. Guess its going to be a PTO, hydro or a hi-lift jack with a pull pal.

Another problem most winches have, they are mounted to the front of the vehicle.
That usually the direction that gets you into even deeper trouble!

As I do admire those people who enjoy themselves during winching competitions and trophy runs, I rather drive mine around the bog than through it.
There are other more bog specific vehicles which cost far less than a competition 4x4 and will go a lot further.
AKA mudd-ox

Don't get me wrong you can even get a mudd-ox stuck, but these things are so light you can winch them out with a long length of rope and a few snatch blocs. Or a paddle

So if you ask me, well ...

When I'm done clearing the trees in the backyard I'll be ordering a hi-lift winch kit, a pull pal and a decent length of 3/8" chain.

 

[Graham]

Graham, there are lots of 'it depends' on these things, but when you double the line with a pulley / snatch block the line speed is effectively halved. So yes the motor can run at the same speed but the vehicle will move half the rate. It goes onto the drum at the same speed of course. I think that question is does it halve the load on the motor or allow you to pull effectively double with the same is one I shall leave to the experts. But I have seen test set ups where you can see the amp draw etc under load and from what I could see, doubling made the motor more efficient in pulling the same, but slower. I think it's probably a mixture of the lot. Test conditions are not the same as being in a muddy hole. I tend to double at every opportunity as I prefer to move the object vehicle with more control than single line pull. Not because of the other advantages it gives, generally.

Chris

Thanks Chris,
I didn't think about the second advantage ''I tend to double at every opportunity as I prefer to move the object vehicle with more control than single line pull.''

I suppose by pulling more slowly, ultimatly gives more control as to 'pull and not to pull'

Thanks

Graham

 

[Ian Rubie]

I didn't think about the second advantage ''I tend to double at every opportunity as I prefer to move the object vehicle with more control than single line pull.''

I suppose by pulling more slowly, ultimatly gives more control as to 'pull and not to pull'

I wish I had thought of that reason when I had the ultra slow version of my hydraulic winch setup. Could have told people it was deliberately that speed rather than saying go have lunch I'll be out when you get back

Ian