Excessive play in transfer box KZJ90

[Shayne]

Hoping for a quick answer from Bob Murphy would a transfer box chain from an auto be the same length as my manual ?

And am i right to assume an auto is very unlikely to ruin a chain .

I have found a get it or its gone deal with bugger all description other than spares or repair .

 

[BobMurphy]

Oooops, I haven't been in here for a while, hope I'm not too late .


1. YES the chains are the same in a T-Box from a Manual or an Auto.

2. An Auto may be a bit easier on the drive train, but if you're doing extreme off-roading I guess the load on the chain will be the same as for a Manual.

3. Why is the T-Box advertised as "Spares or Repair" ?? what's broken ???

It'll be worth having for spares even if the chain is no better than the one you've got .

What state are you at now ??

Bob.

 

[Shayne]

I bought it . The seller swapped this box with his own because he had lost 4wd only to find he still didn't have 4wd and realizing the problem was at the front diff and swapped back again so he could not say for certain if it was in good working order is all .

At a glance it seems in good nick to me and twisting the shaft drives on it only serves to convince me more that my chain is the problem .

 

[BobMurphy]

Are you going to swap the boxes and see if its better - or swap the chains over ??

We need pictures .

Bob.

 

[Shayne]

Swap chains is the plan .

 

[diggerdave]

Hi Shayne. I wondered if you have got any further with this plan? Are you intending to try the chain swap without removing the box from the vehicle?

I only ask because I've got a very similar issue - moderately bad transmission shunt that requires very careful clutch use (even then it still shunts sometimes when the clutch engages), which is completely absent with front prop removed, slightly worse with rear removed (thus isolating it to a front diff or front prop side of transfer box). There's relatively little backlash apparent at front diff pinion flange (so unlikely to be a diff problem), but there's around 10mm or more play when comparing front and rear output flanges from the transfer box in HL (I don't know what's normal spec, but that seems excessive and suggests chain wear/slack to me). With the centre diff unlocked there is some worn chain noise when turning the front transfer box output flange by hand with the prop disconnected (again, I don't know how much chain noise is normal but it all points to a slack/worn chain I think).

 

[Shayne]

I haven't done anything with it yet but yes i am hoping to just swap the chain without removing the box .
Luckily i have the spare box to play with so tomorrow after having a look at the clutch on my truck (thanks to your suggestion) i might pull that apart to see what i'm getting into before attempting it under the mrs truck .

 

[diggerdave]

There are brand new chains available via Amayama for £258+postage (which sounds pretty good to me), but I might just see how you get on before ordering one! It's not a job to take lightly .

 

[Shayne]

Is yours a 1kd truck then Dave ?

 

[diggerdave]

1KZ-TE/KZJ90

But the transfer box is the same isn't it? And the clutch/bellhousing set-up is similar (although solid flywheel on mine)?

 

[Shayne]

Yes same box i was just wondering if the extra power of the 1kd might have something to do with the cause but if yours is ikz with the same symptoms i guess not . Its a rare problem though so i took a chance and bought a used box on ebay figuring the chain should be good and if the problem turns out to be something else i should have all the spares i need .

What makes me think its the chain is there is nothing alarming about the shunt , its like its somehow cushioned .

 

[diggerdave]

Aah, I'm with you! Mine has done 178,000 miles so I expect all sorts of wear and tear issues may become apparent, lower power output or not. I've also no idea how well it was looked after for most of its life; not very well if the state of the interior was anything to judge by. The other possibility in my case is that the front diff has excessive backlash, but it doesn't feel too bad at the diff pinion flange, a little more than the rear but not much. I actually got my mechanic to feel it too and he agreed (although not really a 4x4 specialist); nothing to be concerned about. So everything points to the chain...

 

[Shayne]

Shayne,

Unstake the nut and remove the rear axle Companion Flange (nut can be VERY tight).

Use a screwdriver to try to lift the chain off the sprocket - if you can get it half way up a tooth its probably worn. The teeth aren't very pronounced - not like a bicycle or motorcycle sprocket.

Keep us posted.

Bob.

You were right about tight mate I ended up with this to get it off

I can find no play in the chain of my spare box so all is good so far but with knowing how tight the companion flange nut actually is it would be nice to have confirmation that locking the centre diff (with the box in place) will hold the shaft so i can get some leverage on the nut ?

 

[Shayne]

Looks like i was wrong about the chain it seems tight but the whole shaft and bearing can be slid back and forth nearly 10mm which can't be right and the noise it makes when i do it is recognizable when compared to the clutch bang .

I am still baffled how back and forth could result in the rotational play in the wheels as shown in the vid i posted earlier in this thread .

I think its job stop for me until until Bob Murphy can shed some light on what i should do next ?

 

[Shayne]

And is this the part from which i absolutely must not lose the tiny ball bearing ?

If so i have lost it !

 

[Shayne]

Found the bearing .... well found where its supposed to be anyway , will just have to hope it still in there

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7848&highlight=stripping+transfer+box

 

[BobMurphy]

It would be nice to have confirmation that locking the centre diff (with the box in place) will hold the shaft so i can get some leverage on the nut ?

Eeeeek I wouldn't do that . . . The Centre Diff isn't that strong.

I would seriously recommend making up a steel bar with which to lock the Companion Flange (I assume you can't get your concrete wall under the truck ). That way the load is confined to the flange.

This sort of thing . .




Some 'Stake Nuts' come undone quite easily, so you might be OK. On the other hand I had one that resulted in a destroyed 3/4"-drive power bar .








Bob.

 

[Shayne]

Well as you can see i did get it off using the centre diff to lock it without breaking anything so maybe i was lucky but i would suggest if i were to do it all again i would use your diy tool and remove that nut while the box is still fitted because its almost impossible not to twist on your power bar with that much pressure when the box is out .

While searching the web for suggestions on what to do next i have found a number of suggestions that Toyota issued a recall in Oz for the 95 series (shorty 90 was never sold in Oz) due to backlash complaints . Interestingly the recall took place circa 2006 four years after they stopped selling it .

Some were lucky enough to get free new props and others just got their trucks back minus the shunt ?

 

[BobMurphy]

It seems tight but the whole shaft and bearing can be slid back and forth nearly 10mm which can't be right and the noise it makes when i do it is recognizable when compared to the clutch bang.

Shayne,

As you may have discovered, the little ball bearing is under the 'worm drive' sleeve on the output shaft in your picture (there are two more little BBs inside the box!).

The Worm Drive sleeve has to be pulled up tight so that it rotates with the output shaft. That's what the Companion Flange does - its pulled up against the splined washer on the outside of the sleeve and holds the shaft, sleeve and bearing together. The shaft shouldn't move in or out when the outer extension cover (with speedo drive) and the flange are in place.



You may need heat when you come to remove the outer cover from the Transfer Case - it is a tight fit on the front output shaft's sprocket's inner bearing.

Also, there aren't many places where you can get a lever between cover and case to prise them apart (don't wedge a screwdriver into the joint faces ).




Hit the block of wood - not the alloy casting








With the chain and front output shaft sprocket removed, remove the oil pump pick-up plate and extract and clean the magnetic swarf trap from its housing:










This is what it should look like :



Keep us posted !

Bob.

 

[Shayne]

You think its worth going further into the box then Bob ?