Rocker Shaft needed

[Jalex]

Had a disaster with my 1995 Landcruiser 80 series 24 valve last week, the pulley on the timing belt came off.
Injectors are fine but the rocker shaft is in bits.
Anyone know where to get a used rocker shaft or would you recommend a new one, if so where to get it?

thanks folks.

james

 

[bertsky]

Had a disaster with my 1995 Landcruiser 80 series 24 valve last week, the pulley on the timing belt came off.
Injectors are fine but the rocker shaft is in bits.
Anyone know where to get a used rocker shaft or would you recommend a new one, if so where to get it?

thanks folks.

james

Just ordered one from amayama trading. try it.. have your valves checked also, some of them may be bent just like mine.

 

[Gav Peter]

James, have a look at this eBay auction... HERE

Looks like what you are after maybe

 

[karl webster]

James, have a look at this eBay auction... HERE

Looks like what you are after maybe

Strange.... The 12v doesn't have rockers.

Bertsky, interested in the part number and price for this as well. Tried sourcing these a few times with no joy.

 

[clivehorridge]

Strange.... The 12v doesn't have rockers.

Bertsky, interested in the part number and price for this as well. Tried sourcing these a few times with no joy.

Surely, Jalex (OP) is referring to the camshaft, not "rocker shaft", dont you think?

 

[Jalex]

You are correct Clive its the Camshaft, Camshaft bearings, bearing Caps, valve rocker arms etc that i need. Photos to follow of the mess i have.

 

[Jalex]

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

That looks bu@@ered, stil it will mend with a few new bits.

Andy

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Camshaft caps are machined insitu with the head, just like the caps on a con-rod, so you cant just buy them separately. Also, with this amount of damage, you need to check the valves as contact with the pistons seems likely. Also there will be an amount of "shrapnel" in the cam area, and possibly the sump, that will need dealing with.

Roger

 

[karl webster]

That was why I piped up Roger.

I have tried buying the caps separate. Only way is buying with the head.

Still hold hope that someone has a cheap fix for this as I have a couple of head that are similar.

 

[clivehorridge]

Camshaft caps are machined insitu with the head, just like the caps on a con-rod, so you cant just buy them separately. Also, with this amount of damage, you need to check the valves as contact with the pistons seems likely. Also there will be an amount of "shrapnel" in the cam area, and possibly the sump, that will need dealing with.

Roger

Roger, does that mean that if you did obtain new or used caps that were not machined to the head, you would have to have them line bored in situ?

I remember many moons ago breaking a main bearing cap installing a re ground crank into a Mini Cooper 1071"S" five bearing block. My name was sh1t because I didn't take care and we had to tour the scrappies to find one (almost as rare a rocking horse poo even in those days). We found one and had the journals line bored, had to change the mains shells another size up, but it solved the problem.

I'm still a bit confused though, sadly I don't know this engine well enough even though I've driven it for years. The photo does show a rocker shaft, so I was wrong in my post above. Do the cams act on rockers because I thought they directly operated the valves via shimmed cups? Sorry, confused.... Must look at the book!

 

[Roger Fairclough]

That was why I piped up Roger.

I have tried buying the caps separate. Only way is buying with the head.

Still hold hope that someone has a cheap fix for this as I have a couple of head that are similar.

The caps have a perfect half circle as does the head. If you get second hand caps, they will fit over the cam and locate perfectly onto the head but the locating system, which may be dowels or bolts, will not line up. Each cap is numbered and the numbers run from front to back. Get one in the wrong position or the wrong way round and you will lock up the camshaft.

If you can get some second hand ones, you could try a suck it and see trial run of seeing what fits and allows the camshaft to turn or you could leave out the dowels and try assembly that way. With the bolt only system you could try slimming the bolts down in a lathe but I wouldn't recommend either as life expectancy would be dubious. Removing the head, fitting second hand caps and line boring them with the block is not an option as the caps would have an out of round section and oil would pee out inducing excess wear.

If you could get new caps that were machined to fit the head but not line bored, then yes, you could rescue the head. I bought a new head from Rough Trax that came with valves and cam fitted. I returned the old head for recycling. It may be opportune to ask them for any further ideas.

Roger

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Roger, does that mean that if you did obtain new or used caps that were not machined to the head, you would have to have them line bored in situ?

I remember many moons ago breaking a main bearing cap installing a re ground crank into a Mini Cooper 1071"S" five bearing block. My name was sh1t because I didn't take care and we had to tour the scrappies to find one (almost as rare a rocking horse poo even in those days). We found one and had the journals line bored, had to change the mains shells another size up, but it solved the problem.

I'm still a bit confused though, sadly I don't know this engine well enough even though I've driven it for years. The photo does show a rocker shaft, so I was wrong in my post above. Do the cams act on rockers because I thought they directly operated the valves via shimmed cups? Sorry, confused.... Must look at the book!

There is no way you would have them line bored in situ. I assume you mean with the head still fitted? The caps are aluminium and the camshaft runs in the cap itself.

Ford Motor Co. would line bore a block and caps and if the result wasn't perfect, they bored it again to a bigger size, so if you had the crank re-ground, you needed to order the shells sized to the new c/shaft dia plus, maybe, sized to suit a bigger bore in the block.

The "A" series BMC engine was a 3 main bearing design. Are you thinking of the Ford engine which was a 5 main bearing design? Getting a new cap and line boring to the next size would tie in with my comments above.

The photos show roller bearing tipped rockers acting onto the valves. Clearances are set by adjustable tappets.

Roger

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Jalex

Exactly which pulley came off?


All that damage was caused by the valves hitting the pistons so I think there is no point in proceding until the head has been off and the pistons/bottom end assessed. Also the valves and seats.

Frank

 

[clivehorridge]

There is no way you would have them line bored in situ. I assume you mean with the head still fitted? The caps are aluminium and the camshaft runs in the cap itself.

Ford Motor Co. would line bore a block and caps and if the result wasn't perfect, they bored it again to a bigger size, so if you had the crank re-ground, you needed to order the shells sized to the new c/shaft dia plus, maybe, sized to suit a bigger bore in the block.

The "A" series BMC engine was a 3 main bearing design. Are you thinking of the Ford engine which was a 5 main bearing design? Getting a new cap and line boring to the next size would tie in with my comments above.

The photos show roller bearing tipped rockers acting onto the valves. Clearances are set by adjustable tappets.

Roger

The BMC "A" series was a 3 bearing crank except for the "Cooper S" which had a 5 bearing crank in the 1071 cc engine (which may have also been used in an in-line version in the MG Midget and Sprite if I'm not mistaken, its a long time ago!).

Wikipedia describes "the 1071 cc version as another one-off, this time for the Mini Cooper S. It used a new 70.6 mm (2.78 in) bore size and the 68.26 mm (2.687 in) stroke from the 848. It was only produced in 1963–1964. Paired with the even rarer 970 cc version, below, it became that rarest of things: an oversquare A-series engine.

Applications:
1963–1964 Austin/Morris Mini Cooper S, 70 hp (52 kW) at 6000 rpm and 62 lb·ft (84 N·m) at 4500 rpm"

However, it doesn't help me confirm that it was 5 bearing, which I still think it was.

When I mentioned line boring I didn't mean in situ on the car, I was suggesting it to be done in a workshop, similar to skimming on a milling machine or lathe spun, I've seen both methods in action for facing.

Anyway, I'm guilty of running this thread off topic a bit, it doesn't seem to assist our friend with his busted rocker shaft problem

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Hi Clive.

I don't think Jalex will mind a little side track at the moment as it will keep the thread going whilst he has his hands full removing the head.

I look a quick look at Wikipedia and they just say the "A" series was a 3 main bearing design. I had a particularly quick---it must have been a Thursday motor---Morris 1100 that was capable of 95 mph plus ( I kid you not ) but at that speed the engine revs were on the limit at 6,000. Much more and a rod would exit the block.

Roger

 

[clivehorridge]

Hi Clive.

I don't think Jalex will mind a little side track at the moment as it will keep the thread going whilst he has his hands full removing the head.

I look a quick look at Wikipedia and they just say the "A" series was a 3 main bearing design. I had a particularly quick---it must have been a Thursday motor---Morris 1100 that was capable of 95 mph plus ( I kid you not ) but at that speed the engine revs were on the limit at 6,000. Much more and a rod would exit the block.

Roger

Those things used to float at anything over 70, surprised you didn't take off! BTW scoured the net for ref to a 5 brg A series, I must have had a senior moment and dreamed it But I do recall something special about the very rare 1071 crank, maybe it had wider journals... Sorry Jalex

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Some cranks were nitrided. As this process resulted in a significant percentage of failures due to warping, the cost was a lot higher

Roger

 

[clivehorridge]

Yep, and the next stage down was toughtrided if I remember that's what we had in our little 12 car rally 1960 mini all those years ago happy go lucky days! Back to Jalex now!

 

[bertsky]

valve rocker shaft

View attachment 8901
View attachment 8902View attachment 8903

That is a broken valve rocker shaft on the right and not a camshaft. Part number is 13901-17010 in the amayama parts catalogue. Mine had broken valve bridges (utmost left), a camshaft bearing cap and valve rocker shaft. Ordered them already but still waiting for those pats to arrive.

Can anybody tell us what probably caused our problem? Looks like it's a common problem with 1HD-FT engine. Thanks