Subscriptions - forum update. Please read.

[oostsco]

I love this site - used it before I got my LC and it certainly helped me to make a decision (and I still paid too much).
Tbo I was surprise to see some of the comments from members I have a high opinion of and my initial thought was that it was just so unfair to make such a strong statement against subscriptions if you are not you paying the bill. But it is a bit clearer to me now (and glad I did not respond straight away) - its about ownership, members owe the club not individuals.

I will be happy to go with the best option even if it is a subscription.

Finally Crispin thanks for the great job you are doing

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Free hosting
Thanks for all the offers. The site currently uses about 12GB of storage and about 50GB a month on traffic. As part of the move and upgrade, I signed up to a better (more expensive) server. When we started having more trouble with that I upgraded again. This time to a bigger, standalone server. This has been flawless since. The deal I struck with the provider binds me in a termed contract.
The caution I have at jumping at the free hosting offers, and this is only a musing, is that the forum cannot be passed around to the whomever wants to host it this month. A slight exaggeration but free always has downsides.

Why would the forum need to be passed around, you weren't asked to move the site before and weren't likely to be, so it seems a strange musing?

Being stuck in a termed contract is a different angle to the issue, free hosting can't fix that, so I guess there will have to be some sort of fund raising done.

 

[Gav Peter]

More than happy to contribute to funds to get through the current hosting costs but once thats out of the way won't getting onto free hosting be the thang to do with an occasional whip round if funds are necessary??

Personally, I don't like ads & I like our little neighbourhooderoonie just as it is...

 

[Chris]

I despise huge great flashy adverts and massive signature lines for that matter with blinking great gif nonsense going on in there, but I don't mind banners in the header really.
Now regardless of where the cash comes from - which we're working on, the fact that we're tied into a 'contract' is a game changer for me. All bets are off really if we are in a place that we can't get out of just yet. Really it's all the justification that I was looking for. If we could have moved to somewhere free it would have been an answer. But we can't. So where do we get the money from? I'm waiting for a couple of answers back. But after that it's probably time to get the wallet out.

C

 

[Crispin]

I'm going to look into sending out an email to the suggests provided - let's see what response I get back.
I'll also be fiddling around with how and where to put banners so don't get all excited if it goes funky for a bit.
There might also be a upgrade over the weekend so there might be some downtime.

 

[Bat21]

.... If we could have moved to somewhere free it would have been an answer. But we can't....

WTF is a site like this doing considering free hosting

.... So where do we get the money from?....

An optional £12 a year subscription would get my vote.... but what do I know

 

[Chris Green90]

I'm going to look into sending out an email to the suggests provided - let's see what response I get back.
I'll also be fiddling around with how and where to put banners so don't get all excited if it goes funky for a bit.
There might also be a upgrade over the weekend so there might be some downtime.

Knowing little about internetty things I am not sure if it is possible and it may also be very underhanded indeed but it is possible to find out the amount of traffic a particular site is getting in comparison to say our own????? Again it may be a bargining chip.

Don't want to leave this all up to you Cris so anything I can do to help, Writing letters, making calls etc just let me know mate.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

WTF is a site like this doing considering free hosting

What are the disadvantages that make you so sure this club needs the extra complications and obligations of what will in effect be a membership fee, voluntary or not?

 

[Bat21]

Jon, 11 years ago I went through what is now happening here..... simple answer is, you get what you pay for.

If data security, resilliance, 100% up time etc is not a high priority then fine go for free hosting.

One question, is this place a Club, or is Cris ultimately Jdge, Jury and Executioner?.... what was the agreement made back in 2010?

 

[Chris Green90]

You can't ask that question Paul if you are so hell bent on not having a committee. Yes Committee's are a pita but it reduces the amount of decision makers from 2959 (at time of typing) to between 3 and 12. Got to be easier to get a decision??? Not so long ago you were also criticising us all for question the £12 a year and now you are the one accusing Cris of making all the rules. Me thinks you stand a little on the fence.

In reference to sponsorship a little minor research throws this little comparison in the mix

Subject	A.N.Other UK Landcruiser Forum	landcruiserclub.net
Milner threads in last 12 months	33	88
Milner threads in last 6 months	18	46
Milner threads in last month	3	17
Roughtrax threads in last 12 months	28	55
Roughtrax threads in last 6 months	15	27
Roughtrax threads in last month	4	7

 

[Bat21]

You seem to be a little confused here Chris. I am on Crispin's side with this one

I'm a little confused why you say I can not ask the question regarding the origins of this place.... can I ask why?

 

[Chris Green90]

Sorry The question I was refering to was the one about Crispin being JJ&E. Asking if Cris is ultimately Judge Jury and Executioner sounds as though you don't want him to be. If "this place" is truely a club then there needs to be a committee otherwise nothing will ever be agreed upon. Ultimately Cris has the final say in what happens but I don't think he would do anything without the consensus but with the best part of 3000 members that could take a hell of a long time. You seem to forget that we are all on Crispins side here. That being the side where stuff need paying for and no 1 man should foot the bill.

If there is no other solution just watch at the amount of people who have posted options and alternatives here sign up. I can pretty much guarantee that Chris, Ben, Myself and all the others will be amongst the first as we all want to see this club/site/forum/community thrive

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Jon, 11 years ago I went through what is now happening here..... simple answer is, you get what you pay for.

If data security, resilliance, 100% up time etc is not a high priority then fine go for free hosting.

Maybe you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions about the 'free' hosting that was/is on offer and should take the trouble to find out more about it before you WTF it Doesn't solve the more immediate problem though.

One question, is this place a Club, or is Cris ultimately Jdge, Jury and Executioner?.... what was the agreement made back in 2010?

I'm going to see if any of the others remember or still have those emails Paul because maybe they have a different view or recollection of it or will save me keep being the bad guy when really I'm just looking out for our club

P.S. I am also on Crispin's side, and Crispin is on the clubs side, quit talking about sides, we have different ideas of how we should reach our goal not who we're going to cheer for.

 

[Jimbo4x4]

Ben also listed:

Devon 4x4
Sliverline wheels and tyres
http://www.startermotor-alternator.co.uk/

Lindop Toyota Queensferry (Parts-King runs the parts dept.)

The main UK Cooper Tyre importer is a tiny tyre fitters in Bridgend - Tyres-R-Us 01656 720044 Jason can source Cooper tyres cheaper than anywhere else in the UK, got my last two sets of STT's off him 265's @ £100 a corner. Just thought I'd throw that in there...

 

[Bat21]

.... there needs to be a committee otherwise nothing will ever be agreed upon.

Sorry Chris but you're living in the dark ages with this one....

.... with the best part of 3000 members that could take a hell of a long time. You seem to forget that we are all on Crispins side here....

There are actually only 380 active members, the other 2,600 haven't visited here for quite some time.

If everyone was on Cispins side we wouldn't be having this debate and would be backing his proposal.

Maybe you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions about the 'free' hosting that was/is on offer and should take the trouble to find out more about it before you WTF it Doesn't solve the more immediate problem though.

Clearly you know what was on offer so why not tell us Jon. If it was that good why did Cris choose to move it to where it now is?

.... we have different ideas of how we should reach our goal not who we're going to cheer for.

Clearly

The one who ultimately has the final decision needs to make that decision and stick with it. Keeping everyone happy all of the time is never an option.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Clearly you know what was on offer so why not tell us Jon. If it was that good why did Cris choose to move it to where it now is?

I don't know why, I am wondering the same thing given this is the result, but data security, resilience and up time are all good on what I offered, I won't speak for Andrew.

The one who ultimately has the final decision needs to make that decision and stick with it. Keeping everyone happy all of the time is never an option.

If one person makes that decision it will go against the gentlemen's agreement this has run under till now and this community will be no better off than it was when Simon called the shots. You took an active part in those email conversations Paul, I don't know why you are choosing to ignore that and try to stir things up needlessly.

 

[Crispin]

I think this has moved beyond a productive debate so can we please all put the handbags bag under the desk.


I don't think I have ever "just done something" and not actually listened to the members or not done what the members wanted. That's not about to change. As I have said many times, that would be pointless.
In the very early days we tried the "large committee" thing and it did not work because a decision could not be reached and too many opinions just did not work so we won't be going back to that idea.
Nothing will change in the way it is run or how the forum works so ya'll can stop worrying about it. It's a community for Pete's sake so why would I do anything to jeopardize that?


Can we please keep this constructive or not at all.


Thanks.

 

[Bat21]

.... I don't know why you are choosing to ignore that and try to stir things up needlessly.

Jon, if my participation in this thread is seen as "stirring things up", then I will say no more.... as one of the initial 'Team' I was simply supporting Crispin's proposal.

Interestingly, one of the comments made when this place was created 3 years ago was 'the team should also never become a committee'....


Edit: I was typing the above before I saw Cripin's reply.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I don't think I have ever "just done something" and not actually listened to the members or not done what the members wanted.

Maybe I will get banned for being honest and stating the obvious but the former is why this is happening.

I'll shut up now, someone else can stick their neck out for 'principle'.

 

[Chris]

Well I have tried Jon, but I can't see a way past the fact that we are 'tied' into something at present.

Look, this forum is democratic. Very, and at times maybe even too much so. But hey, get over that. The truth is that if we had an utterly flat structure where everyone was simply a member, then the forum would fall over in a day. Someone has to do things to it. I get that. Those people entrusted to do that (That's you Crispin) HAVE to have a degree of authority to act and autonomy to make decision about fixes etc. So immediately there is a different category. Then we have mods who have to make decisions. Not everyone has the right to edit, ban, lock etc, so there's another natural division. You see you simply cannot exist with out some management. When a decision is made by one person that's autocracy and by more than one democracy. A bunch of people making decisions together is effectively a committee. And that happens and always has. Now I think that the image of a committee is one of people meeting to decide the future. That is NOT what we do. We only meet, virtually, to make decision about the present. It is not there to run the club, it is there to make decisions at the time. I cannot see anyway to run something like this any differently.

If someone has a model (no, not like Simon which is effectively a communist dictatorship) that works then let's see it. I am struggling to see where there is anything on the table here other than where we get the money other than from Crispin's dinner money tin. I am advocating getting someone else to pay for it and others seem to be advocating that we pay for it. Sure it's not much money so why try to get someone else to pay? Because it's a completely sensible, viable and appropriate suggestion. It's a decision that we need to make about the present as detailed above - on behalf of those people who haven't been charged with making those decisions. When someone comes along in the future and says, look I don't mind paying like you lot, but have you ever considered sponsorship and the benefits that it might bring in terms of club discounts etc? And we say 'Oh f*** what a cracking idea why didn't we explore that?' Simple, we couldn't have an adult discussion about it.

This isn't about right or wrong, it's about left or right. Which would be better? If we pay individually, then someone who doesn't pay gets less. OK. But if someone else pays than everyone gets everything for free, don't they?

OK so what's the DOWN side for someone else paying?