The sad state of classic sales in Ireland

[Bob]

In the last 2 years or so, the market for the 40 series in Ireland has gone berserk. It started with a couple of of top class restored examples selling for big money, and now every cowboy importing clean ones from Australia is looking for crazy money.

This appeared this week..

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars...cruiser-bj42-lx-1984-limited-edition/14161839

Yes it's end of line, but it's a non registered import in need of a bit of work to make it as good as factory fresh,.and of no great significance. It seems the supply/demand machinations have taken on a life of their own. It is only one of many.. rusty ones are €12,000 minimum

 

[Crispin]

40k for a 40? That seems a bit much. Are the selling?

I wonder if there is a business in me travelling the world looking for 40s and sending them Ireland (the UK not much better...).
Will speak to SWAMBO

 

[clivehorridge]

40k for a 40? That seems a bit much. Are the selling?

I wonder if there is a business in me travelling the world looking for 40s and sending them Ireland (the UK not much better...).
Will speak to SWAMBO

Maybe you should get in quick Cris...

 

[Crispin]

I've quietly been watching that thread with interest Clive.

 

[Towpack]

Is it the old supply and demand equation? If they're selling at that sort of money then the demand must be there or is it the increasingly common misconception that just because something is old it must be worth £££££?

 

[Crispin]

Probably a bit of both coupled with a touch of frenzy for them. Similar is happening to the 80s?

 

[Paddler Ed]

I think there's a demand for them that exists, but the cost of importing into Ireland and the UK is a bit higher than it was 6 months ago.

When the £ was a £0.50 = AU$1, then there was a sensible price.... now it's back to the high 50's/low 60s and there's less of a saving. Similar movements have gone on with the € so that's going to drive the prices up a touch.

Also don't forget there is only a finite supply of un-rooted ones in Australia and as both the domestic and international market chase them, that'll impact the initial price paid. Anything that is coastal is unlikely to be much less rusty than a UK one by now, so it's looking at inland west of the dividing range in NSW/QLD and there's not a whole lot there...

 

[clivehorridge]

I'm not so sure I follow why it's such a "sad" state.

Sadder would be them being worthless and left to rot in the fields and barns. It worries me that the 80 series can be bought in an untidy condition for £2k in the U.K. and that perfectly good 80s are being chopped up for spares because they're so cheap to buy.

IMO, I think it's good news that 80s are realizing higher prices lately (and some well deserved respect as a consequence) and I'd have thought likewise for 40s.

OK, those prices may be well out of order, but I think the market will drag them down to something more sensible in the next 6 months. Isn't it a bit like the yuppie phase at the end of the 80s...?

JMHO

 

[Dave]

Some decent pictures would be nice, like underneath, instead of the zebra seat covers.

 

[Bob]

I suppose what I mean by sad Clive is that the are hyper inflated prices that put them way out of reach of the common enthusiast, leaving many of them in private collections never to be seen again. While it's great that they are saved, I would rather see them out and about.

I don't have a problem with high prices for a top quality restored classic with a bit of pedigree, but it has become a 'mania' at this point. They are not yet ultra-rare, and new fabricated panels and parts are freely available so I don't see the normal conditions for driving prices into the crazy ranges. Some are selling, but others are sitting for a long time

 

[clivehorridge]

I suppose what I mean by sad Clive is that the are hyper inflated prices that put them way out of reach of the common enthusiast, leaving many of them in private collections never to be seen again. While it's great that they are saved, I would rather see them out and about.

I don't have a problem with high prices for a top quality restored classic with a bit of pedigree, but it has become a 'mania' at this point. They are not yet ultra-rare, and new fabricated panels and parts are freely available so I don't see the normal conditions for driving prices into the crazy ranges. Some are selling, but others are sitting for a long time

Point taken Bob. Collections are one thing, but the lack of access to us commoners is another.

One can only hope that the market will pull the prices down.

As with the link in post #3 above, various military (and other organizations) releases of these vehicles onto the market will assist in this I hope.

 

[Bob]

I agree completely that I'd hate to see them left to rot. I've seen that happen too often too! Hopefully it will come back..I'll be keeping my eye on 60's before they go that way too!

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

IMHO classic car and motorcycle inflated values are the result of very low interest rates. Looking at things objectively there is no logical reason why something outdated should be worth more than a more modern,better made item. I guess there is the nostalgia thing, about something that was top of the tree in its day but it generally turns items which were designed to be used into ornaments.
Even the desirable LX 40 series featured will be s**t to drive by modern standards, anyone contemplating a journey in that compared with a Collie at 10% of the price must have a peculiar sense of fun.

Maybe I'm missing something but in my opinion these classics are never worth the money.

 

[clivehorridge]

IMHO classic car and motorcycle inflated values are the result of very low interest rates. Looking at things objectively there is no logical reason why something outdated should be worth more than a more modern,better made item. I guess there is the nostalgia thing, about something that was top of the tree in its day but it generally turns items which were designed to be used into ornaments.
Even the desirable LX 40 series featured will be s**t to drive by modern standards, anyone contemplating a journey in that compared with a Collie at 10% of the price must have a peculiar sense of fun.

Maybe I'm missing something but in my opinion these classics are never worth the money.

That has to be true, imagine doing a 20k overland with no power steering, you'd come back looking like Popeye...

My ideal is modified older cars, then you have most of the benefits plus the classical niceties.

My 1955 Austin A30 was eventually written off when it was hit by a drunk, when parked up on the kerbside. Outwardly it was classic and original black paint, yet under the hood it was MG Midget throughout, engine, gearbox, transmission, suspension, rear axle, brakes, wishbones, front discs & a Vauxhall VX 490 brake servo which was huge and fitted perfectly, both physically and technically, in operation.

Oh, and it had 6" wide BFG mag alloy wheels which were huge in those days. The standard rim on the A30 was 3.5" IIRC.

Loved it! And it turned some heads.

Many of the 80 owner members have upgraded their 1992/3 smaller brake discs to the later bigger ones. You can do quite a lot to improve some of the classics for practical use, without it losing its charm.

Of course, it doesn't go down well with the purists...

 

[Michael Montgomery]

As older vehicles like the 80 more so the 60 & 40 series become rarer & valued more the prices are only gonna go up. You see this with older porsches & other makes too.

The question really matters to why this is happening & mostly it seems because we are in an error of modern vehicles that shelter the purity on the driving experience.

Modern cars you feel disconnected from the experience of the road & the life cycle of vehicles are also dimishing. You can see this when you look at how many cars are older than 10 years on the roads & that many won't be around much longer than that. They have become more techical & adding to the excessive repair bill.

This is why Leasing has taken off on most modern countries so we have moved to renting cars almost like renting a home / mortgage.

I like my 80 & invested in it because it adds value to keeping these types of the old breed going & this will outlast any modern vehicle.

Here in northern Cyprus there are rare but a few around not sold that offen & there are owners here who have bought another one just for parts from abroad. They start at £15000 on average and so ones in the U.K. are deemed as chump change. Lol

 

[clivehorridge]

Although there's many that do, I've never invested in a car other than to achieve what I want from it.

It means I spend a fortune, love my car to bits, until it literally can't go on any longer. I salvage what I can then move on.

When I got the 80, it was the same story but my age and temperament meant that this one would be the last.... or maybe the next one, if I outlive this one, which I very much doubt!

Add it up in cash, and I guess I'd shoot myself, but it's what I want. Apart from some small luxuries, I won't be doing any more to it. Maybe a replacement winch one day and periodical refurbs on the rest.

 

[Michael Montgomery]

With all those adventures you have Clive I'm sure your health will only flourish more at the expense of your pocket....lol

 

[doyle61]

My brother in law was doing a 40 up and wanted to do a bit of off roading with it when it was finished. He had a good bit done and wouldn't have taken long to finish the project but when the prices rose so much he it and bought a 70 instead. He said he'd never be able to enjoy driving it because he'd only have purists saying it was wrong to be abusing a car like this etc etc.....you know the type of lads I'm on about. He's now doing 2 70's, one an lj and the other is a bj and I've started on my 70 last week. We reckon these will be future saught after classics but I'd doubt they'll go as mental high in price as the 40

 

[clivehorridge]

With all those adventures you have Clive I'm sure your health will only flourish more at the expense of your pocket....lol

OK, you may be right, but health aside, I'm going to enjoy the rest of my time with my truck, that's for sure!

I'm looking to retire in the foreseeable future, and with a young family I won't be able to afford much more than the fuel. That's why I'm focusing on getting it in shape as I want it, the rest will be maintenance.

The thing is, in my situation, if I'd spent the money on a full classic restoration, I wouldn't get any pleasure from it, I'd just be sitting on an investment like buying a plot of land.

 

[Bob]

Doyle, I see the same situation with tractors, as I carry out restoration works on them part time. Some guys wrap them in cotton wool. My friends and I run a smallholding with veggies and sheep and various bits using 4 tractors all pre 1967 to plough, rotavate, mow, bale etc.. It's the life of them to be used.

The 40 grand cruiser buyer won't be using it for its intended purpose, which is a shame. We've even had the 70 grand 40 series here.. a South African import which, while fully restored, was not worth that kind of money.