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Tales from the National Parks
- Thread starter Ben
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Wonder if it is this chap...
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9788&hilit=bbc
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9788&hilit=bbc
Rob
Well-Known Member
For those of you that missed it, it will be available here soon:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... _District/
I shall be watching the first 20min as soon as its available
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... _District/
I shall be watching the first 20min as soon as its available
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Well that was predictable, wasn't it.
I have a view on Green Laning which I have aired many times. It makes me uneasy when I hear lanes described as 'extreme' for example. JW once eloquently described the origin of lanes to me, for which I am grateful. I have a view that whilst unsurfaced, in the modern sense, they should be passable. Does that mean with 37" Simex and triple lockers? Probably not. I think we need to examine why we'd want to go laning. Is it for the scenery, companionship, sandwiches etc or for off road stimulation?
The programme continually referred to users as off roaders. Clearly this is wrong. They are, whilst open, legally 'roads'. Therefore users are on-roaders.
Some of the lanes looked in very poor condition; great fun to drive but poor as any kind of recognised vehicular access. So if you had a road like this through your village and it was closed by the council for repairs, would you fight it in the High Court whist it was repaired? I don't think so. Just so much as a pot hole has people up in arms.
But if you enjoyed walking, and came across the same poor road in the village, wouldn't you walk on the pavement? Roads are not pavements. There are footpaths, bridleways and green-lanes. Why do walkers insist that they have a right to walk on roads - over that of vehicles. I don't see them clamouring to walk up the M1 on a Sunday. It seems to be a human trait to just want something that someone else has and then take it off them.
I thought it was good to see that the Park Authority seemed to be even. Closing Chapel Gate looked like a sensible decision to me. Sorry, but it did. The walkers simply saw that as a victory, rather than work to try and restore the byway. If all lanes were maintained in a fair and passable condition - whilst vehicles were allowed to drive on them, the walkers would still object on the grounds that.. well what? On the grounds that someone else was using them? What if they got back to their cars to go home and found the road full of sheep. They'd be livid, I'd bet. But would people still want to drive them? I know some would, but would everybody? There are people on here (such as CRAG) who do a tremendous amount of work, with LAs to keep lanes in good condition for everyone to enjoy and I think that should be applauded and recognised. As usual, it's the w@nkers who give everyone a bad name. Fancy blasting past a camera crew on trail bikes knowing that the fate of the lane was in the balance.
It's a difficult balance. But for me, I'd rather go to a pay and play site knowing that I get great off-road (yes that's off road) fun and I'm not upsetting anyone, infringing anything and usually bringing a new lease of life to some old industrial wasteland. Whatever you do, there is always someone who objects and thinks that they are in the right. Shooting, fishing, drinking, laning, mowing your lawn, naturism, religion. Busy weekend is that
Ah well
Chris
I have a view on Green Laning which I have aired many times. It makes me uneasy when I hear lanes described as 'extreme' for example. JW once eloquently described the origin of lanes to me, for which I am grateful. I have a view that whilst unsurfaced, in the modern sense, they should be passable. Does that mean with 37" Simex and triple lockers? Probably not. I think we need to examine why we'd want to go laning. Is it for the scenery, companionship, sandwiches etc or for off road stimulation?
The programme continually referred to users as off roaders. Clearly this is wrong. They are, whilst open, legally 'roads'. Therefore users are on-roaders.
Some of the lanes looked in very poor condition; great fun to drive but poor as any kind of recognised vehicular access. So if you had a road like this through your village and it was closed by the council for repairs, would you fight it in the High Court whist it was repaired? I don't think so. Just so much as a pot hole has people up in arms.
But if you enjoyed walking, and came across the same poor road in the village, wouldn't you walk on the pavement? Roads are not pavements. There are footpaths, bridleways and green-lanes. Why do walkers insist that they have a right to walk on roads - over that of vehicles. I don't see them clamouring to walk up the M1 on a Sunday. It seems to be a human trait to just want something that someone else has and then take it off them.
I thought it was good to see that the Park Authority seemed to be even. Closing Chapel Gate looked like a sensible decision to me. Sorry, but it did. The walkers simply saw that as a victory, rather than work to try and restore the byway. If all lanes were maintained in a fair and passable condition - whilst vehicles were allowed to drive on them, the walkers would still object on the grounds that.. well what? On the grounds that someone else was using them? What if they got back to their cars to go home and found the road full of sheep. They'd be livid, I'd bet. But would people still want to drive them? I know some would, but would everybody? There are people on here (such as CRAG) who do a tremendous amount of work, with LAs to keep lanes in good condition for everyone to enjoy and I think that should be applauded and recognised. As usual, it's the w@nkers who give everyone a bad name. Fancy blasting past a camera crew on trail bikes knowing that the fate of the lane was in the balance.
It's a difficult balance. But for me, I'd rather go to a pay and play site knowing that I get great off-road (yes that's off road) fun and I'm not upsetting anyone, infringing anything and usually bringing a new lease of life to some old industrial wasteland. Whatever you do, there is always someone who objects and thinks that they are in the right. Shooting, fishing, drinking, laning, mowing your lawn, naturism, religion. Busy weekend is that
Ah well
Chris
The Ginger Beer Appreciation Society's AGM is next week. I can guess what'll be on their agenda Rob. It's an outrage!
Two early comments from two couples. One say, we don't like it and the other said, we'd prefer it if they didn't do it. They are world's apart. Narrow-mindedness should be banned
Chris
Two early comments from two couples. One say, we don't like it and the other said, we'd prefer it if they didn't do it. They are world's apart. Narrow-mindedness should be banned
Chris
Scott
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Well said Chris 
I drive byways for the enjoyment of getting out in the countryside, away from most of the population and to soak up the ever changing scenery, not for a challenge. The majority of the byways in my area have been repaired in recent years and a lot can now be driven in a normal car, if your careful. Indeed I do just that with my Vectra, I do get some funny looks!
I'm personally pleased that the local council have invested in keeping the byways in a passable condition, rather than just closing them all. Others that I've spoke to say that they've ruined them, I do my best to explain to them why they shouldn't be a "challenge" to drive.
One of the byways was pretty much impassable for a decade, now it can be enjoyed be all those that wish to use it. Unfortunately this means that the minority that want to have a "challenging drive" attempt to drive off the route, and it also means that the fly tippers can have a field day dumping out of sight. I fear that the cost of repeatedly clearing up after them will cause the byways to be closed around here. In the south east, lots of people seem to think that the countryside is a free for all dumping ground.
I've sky plus'd the programe in question, I'll save that pleasure till I've really got nothing better to do!
I drive byways for the enjoyment of getting out in the countryside, away from most of the population and to soak up the ever changing scenery, not for a challenge. The majority of the byways in my area have been repaired in recent years and a lot can now be driven in a normal car, if your careful. Indeed I do just that with my Vectra, I do get some funny looks!
I'm personally pleased that the local council have invested in keeping the byways in a passable condition, rather than just closing them all. Others that I've spoke to say that they've ruined them, I do my best to explain to them why they shouldn't be a "challenge" to drive.
One of the byways was pretty much impassable for a decade, now it can be enjoyed be all those that wish to use it. Unfortunately this means that the minority that want to have a "challenging drive" attempt to drive off the route, and it also means that the fly tippers can have a field day dumping out of sight. I fear that the cost of repeatedly clearing up after them will cause the byways to be closed around here. In the south east, lots of people seem to think that the countryside is a free for all dumping ground.
I've sky plus'd the programe in question, I'll save that pleasure till I've really got nothing better to do!
It was interesting but a bit predictable. Those objecting to the 4x4 brigade will never accept anything less than a total ban on off-road vehicles on what they see as THEIR countryside. They just don't see that we can enjoy the scenery as much as they do.
I used to regularly go to Pay & Play sites, until I did my first overlanding trip that is, after that I seemed to have lost the taste for it. With the exception of Lincomb of course
but then it's the social aspect there that is so appealing more than the driving.
I found I got a lot more enjoyment from actually travelling somewhere rather than driving over the same ground at a P&P site. Greenlaning is for me a bit like overlanding but on a smaller scale, it's as much the journey as the destination I get the pleasure from. It's such a shame that a few yahoos are spoiling it for the more sensible of us.
I used to regularly go to Pay & Play sites, until I did my first overlanding trip that is, after that I seemed to have lost the taste for it. With the exception of Lincomb of course
but then it's the social aspect there that is so appealing more than the driving. I found I got a lot more enjoyment from actually travelling somewhere rather than driving over the same ground at a P&P site. Greenlaning is for me a bit like overlanding but on a smaller scale, it's as much the journey as the destination I get the pleasure from. It's such a shame that a few yahoos are spoiling it for the more sensible of us.
Chris Green90
Well-Known Member
Firstly what with all the shots of paragliders...surely they uses 4X$'s to get up that high most of the time...I have seen them in the lakes.
Secondly The march thay did over stanage...Having never driven that lane I have no idea how long it is...but for example...would it not be well within our rights and nothing more than turn about is fair play If we got together 50 4X4/bikers/quads and took over the lane for a day in retaliation to the protest they did...NO...Beccause that would be seen as inappropriate use but would these people want restrictions put on ramblers if they were turning up 20,000 strong for example even though that would be just as inappropriate.
At the end of the day as someone said earlier. These BOAT's etc. are ROADs. therefore vehicular rights should be above all others. If enough people wanted to walk down the M1 then footpaths would be put in a safe distance from the traffic...This is exactly what the "Off Road" group was proposing.
Once again Chris gets right up there on his
I am sorry guys but all this bullspit really bugs me. I am 27 years old and for 26 years I have enjoyed the National parks as a rambler. I now drive a 4X4 and can enjoy the green lanes. That fact has, however, not stopped me enjoying them as a rambler. I recently spent 2 weeks in the Lake District which consisted of 3 days "off" roading and 7 days of rambling. This may have been partly due to the amout of lane but the biggest factor was the love of walking. I really could sit on the fence about this issue but see "off" roaders as such a minority group in the national parks that this should not be an issue at all.
The problem lies in the fact that there are not enough green lanes. therefore the ones there are get overused and left to a state of disrepair. If there where more open lanes then the people of Great Longston would not see nearly as much traffic.
Ok I am done now...I am gonna take a flying leap off my and go on up to bed and dream about Tidworth 
Secondly The march thay did over stanage...Having never driven that lane I have no idea how long it is...but for example...would it not be well within our rights and nothing more than turn about is fair play If we got together 50 4X4/bikers/quads and took over the lane for a day in retaliation to the protest they did...NO...Beccause that would be seen as inappropriate use but would these people want restrictions put on ramblers if they were turning up 20,000 strong for example even though that would be just as inappropriate.
At the end of the day as someone said earlier. These BOAT's etc. are ROADs. therefore vehicular rights should be above all others. If enough people wanted to walk down the M1 then footpaths would be put in a safe distance from the traffic...This is exactly what the "Off Road" group was proposing.
Once again Chris gets right up there on his
I am sorry guys but all this bullspit really bugs me. I am 27 years old and for 26 years I have enjoyed the National parks as a rambler. I now drive a 4X4 and can enjoy the green lanes. That fact has, however, not stopped me enjoying them as a rambler. I recently spent 2 weeks in the Lake District which consisted of 3 days "off" roading and 7 days of rambling. This may have been partly due to the amout of lane but the biggest factor was the love of walking. I really could sit on the fence about this issue but see "off" roaders as such a minority group in the national parks that this should not be an issue at all.
The problem lies in the fact that there are not enough green lanes. therefore the ones there are get overused and left to a state of disrepair. If there where more open lanes then the people of Great Longston would not see nearly as much traffic.
Ok I am done now...I am gonna take a flying leap off my
and go on up to bed and dream about Tidworth 
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some good points made on this thread and some interesting views.
regarding the more extreme lanes, that Chris and Scott both mentioned.
i drive the more challenging extreme lanes, and i do go looking for them as i enjoy driving them. but i can understand what your both saying, but surely if everyone thought the same, then these lanes would no longer get driven, and over time they would disapear, and then there would be even fewer legal rights of way.
im not a fan of paynplays as i get bored after driving around the same site, and usually end up doing a lot more damage to my truck than i ever get from laning.
i cant wait to get to OZ now, thousands and thousands of miles of tracks to explore.
regarding the more extreme lanes, that Chris and Scott both mentioned.
i drive the more challenging extreme lanes, and i do go looking for them as i enjoy driving them. but i can understand what your both saying, but surely if everyone thought the same, then these lanes would no longer get driven, and over time they would disapear, and then there would be even fewer legal rights of way.
im not a fan of paynplays as i get bored after driving around the same site, and usually end up doing a lot more damage to my truck than i ever get from laning.
i cant wait to get to OZ now, thousands and thousands of miles of tracks to explore.
Ben, that wasn't a dig incidentally just a general observation from many sources. Including as it happens the plodder in the Freelander who said that he liked to pit his skill and machine against the lanes. Just as well they weren't bad lanes or we'd have been pulling him out. I absolutely agree that if we don't exercise the right to drive them and are seen to do so we will lose them. Even faster. But I can't agree that damage caused by the passing of vehicles will help. It's vicious circle here. Driving to keep them open, disturbs the surface, rain washes them out, people want to drive those lanes more which in turn ...... And then they get closed. So it's no brainer really. I do think it's possible to drive lanes without causing too much erosion - the tread lightly philosophy, but that's not as much fun for many. Look at that lane that we did as a group some while ago (with Mitch, when we camped in the quarry near the Terri Army) that was NEVER a lane. It was extreme. We even had to winch through it. I agree that as it was so narrow we had little choice but to press on and go through. But for one I felt quite guilty at its condition and our passage through it. Now, some of the lanes are in great condition and should be for ever. But I do recall someone on the radio saying that 'this used to be a great lane until they surfaced it." What more can I say. It kinda encapsulates my whole feeling. Where I take issue with Tinkers Rucksack is that they want it stopped simply because THEY don't like it and it interferes with their enjoyment. Frankly I get pretty p155ed at having to keep stopping to allow people to get off the ROAD when I am trying to drive on it. But I don't try and get pedestrians banned. Intolerance - I have no time for it! 
I hope that these bobble heads will remember who they are fighting when they fall and break their leg this Winter and want some volunteer in their evil machine to come and rescue them!
Chris
I hope that these bobble heads will remember who they are fighting when they fall and break their leg this Winter and want some volunteer in their evil machine to come and rescue them!
Chris
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dont worry Chris, i wasnt taking it as a dig mate.
that lane your referring to has gotten into such a state because it hasnt been maintained. i know councils are limited to how much they can spend maintaining green lanes, but im sure if they did maintain the lanes a little better then they certainly wouldnt fall into the state that some of them seem to.
chapel gate in the peek district was in a terrible state when they put a TRO on it, and i doubt its much better now. the report into the state of it, said that it would cost £100,000 to repair it.
i wonder if they will put another TRO on it as soon as the current one runs out. im yet to drive up it, but have always wanted to.
that lane your referring to has gotten into such a state because it hasnt been maintained. i know councils are limited to how much they can spend maintaining green lanes, but im sure if they did maintain the lanes a little better then they certainly wouldnt fall into the state that some of them seem to.
chapel gate in the peek district was in a terrible state when they put a TRO on it, and i doubt its much better now. the report into the state of it, said that it would cost £100,000 to repair it.
i wonder if they will put another TRO on it as soon as the current one runs out. im yet to drive up it, but have always wanted to.
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J66P said:
its still a BOAT, its just got an experimental 18month TRO on it. when that TRO expires they will have to decided whether to put another one on it. if they dont apply another TRO, it will be open again.
but i do doubt it will ever reopen.
the rights of way officers on the program seem to be under a huge amount of pressure from the old people on that program and there campaign to get 4x4's and trail bikes banned from green lanes.
BIG clean GREEN
Well-Known Member
I've driven all the lanes in the programme many times over the years but the hassle just wasn't worth it in the end, and more from the [strike:miv698gg]bumblers[/strike:miv698gg] ramblers than the police, if you could prove knowledgeable about your legal rights and those of the current legal state of the local area then the police were very helpfull and appreciable, however the ramblers as proven by the old git in the programme who was waving his arms and trying to reach out at the bikers as they passed was the issue I had and the main reason I no longer practice my legal rights in the national park where I pride myself to belong !
As said by others it's the minority of bikers and 4x4 drivers who do us no favours what so ever, they are ignorant to the legal state of the road, they drive in mass convoys, they wouldn't know nor appreciate a SSTI if they sat on one, they wander off the road and damage the sides making the roads wider, as one cop once told us you wouldn't drive up a pavement to find a more difficult route would you (generall chit chat not a repremand) they show no or little concideration to the ramblers or hackers alike.
I do think however that would be very good to show our support to the cause of keeping the lanes open by having some type of legal organised meet, and obviously not on the lanes.
There, that's my opinion given
As said by others it's the minority of bikers and 4x4 drivers who do us no favours what so ever, they are ignorant to the legal state of the road, they drive in mass convoys, they wouldn't know nor appreciate a SSTI if they sat on one, they wander off the road and damage the sides making the roads wider, as one cop once told us you wouldn't drive up a pavement to find a more difficult route would you (generall chit chat not a repremand) they show no or little concideration to the ramblers or hackers alike.
I do think however that would be very good to show our support to the cause of keeping the lanes open by having some type of legal organised meet, and obviously not on the lanes.
There, that's my opinion given
