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Absolutely Gutted In Morocco

I've been thinking on the same lines, but I guess on an 80 I'd need 2, one for each battery.

I'm not so keen on the "relay" type, because a fire may soon burn out the small wires that operate it, or its circuitry, unless I'm mistaken.

I'd prefer the idea of a mechanical big knob "hit-to-kill" switch, if anyone makes such a thing, mounted in a place as close to the batteries as possible, yet accessible without having to open the bonnet.

I'm wanting the same to install in the winch main power supply circuit, in case the solenoids stick in the closed position.

you can buy them on fleabay, I've got one on my 60 because the batteries kept draining. It's mounted on the winchbar
terrible story and a devastating thing to happen. A real wake up call for those of us that often travel as a single vehicle. Could have been very bad indeed.
 
Guys, I'm only speculating, the cause has not yet been established. But if it were an electrical fault then two battery isolators in the +ve as close to the battery as possible would be required. I got two for my 80 after my tiny fire. Never fitted them. :eusa-naughty: A relay type would not be great but a mechanical one would need the operating handle out of harms way, maybe on the firewall up under the dash for example. It's good to be able to isolate the batteries if something goes wrong or even just for maintenance.

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If the dual battery circuit is considered carefully it may be possible to fit tandem isolators that switch at the same time into the negative cables. This way a dead sort from body to battery terminal could be isolated. The simplest thing is a loop of cable hanging somewhere that can be cut as long as you have the means to cut it. This is used in motorsport alongside isolators which are often Bowden cable operated. I'm also guessing in Byron's case that the bonnet release is a plastic tube type Bowden cable with no metallic outer which when melted would prevent the catch from releasing. Something else to consider.
 
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I first saw this thread last night and was horrified.

Still trying to digest what would happen if not in a group?

I suppose some emergency bug out kit that can be removed in less than 60 seconds, that would include enough survival items.

Byron, my thoughts are with you and if I can assist in any way, please do let me know.

Mussy
 
Yes I was only assuming it was electrical fire but isolator switches could still be considered. Outside the car is best.
 
Please accept my apologies for not returning to this thread sooner but I have been finding all a bit hard to process. I really am touched by your messages of sympathy and offers of help. Thank you very much guys.

The financial hit alone is hard enough but I have spent several years preparing the car and had just finished a huge overhaul and upgrade ready for a trip to Cape Town. So to see all the effort, time and energy I put into that car disappear in minutes is emotionally crushing.

As long distance sailor I am used to the idea that I might have to abandon ship into a hostile environment with only minutes to spare. Thus while building the car I had born in mind that I may need to abandon the car in a hurry but in all honesty (unlike with the boat) I did not consider it a likely enough scenario to practice doing so as we did with the boat.

Four of us have now recently experienced, first hand, just how serious a car fire can be. I know each of them is already planning changes to their cars. When they return home I intend to talk to Mark, George and Mike to get their views on how we could better prepare our cars to deal with fire. I will then write up our thoughts on a new thread. I was shocked to hear that both Chris and Frank had suffered total losses due to fire so this is not as isolated an incident as I thought. It turns out within the UK there are around 100 accidental car fires every DAY and 100 people lose their lives in car fires every year!

For now I realise this thread needs more information as to what actually happened to my car.

The fire was definitely electrical. The fault was situated either behind the DS headlight in front of the battery box or very nearby in the area between the inner and outer wing right forward. I have not made any changes in that area but on my 1994 car there was a rat's nest of wires in there including some that were associated with the after market immobiliser.

The fire was really small at first and we are all certain that if we could have popped the bonnet we could easily have put it out AND we could have isolated the batteries. As George pointed out we were standing on enough sand to drown a fair size fire even if we did not have fire extinguishers (we had four between us).

I had a grab bag ready, all my kit is stored in a series of boxes and water is in 10L containers ready to hand. Thus I was able to empty the car really quickly - after Mike yelled at me to do so.

However, because I had never practiced doing this quickly, I made mistakes under pressure. I forgot about my clothes box and had not realised how powerful the radiant heat from a car fire would be. Thus all my clothes burned and my camera lenses and laptop etc. were lost as I had not carried them far enough away from the car and by the time I realised this it was impossible to approach them.

A sobering though from Mark as we watched my car burn was "Shit! you were sleeping in your car last night, hell we were all sleeping in our cars!".

So the sort of changes I would incorporate in a future car would be:

- Externally accessible mechanical battery isolators
- Externally accessible mechanical fuel isolator
- Some kind of alarm system to wake one up if a fire occurs while you are sleeping in or on the car.

There are other ideas and approaches we have discussed and I will collate them all in a new thread for open discussion when it all feels a bit less raw.

Thanks again guys.
 
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Wow, no apologies needed Byron, I can't believe you can be so pragmatic about the event, "emotionally crushing" itself, is a major understatement, I'm sure.

Take stock, be thankful that you're here to tell the tale, and when you can please share your thoughts on safety improvements, I'm sure there's a whole load of us that will consider some worthwhile mods as a consequence.

Thanks.
 
Oh noooo.....

Just spotted this Byron. So, so sorry for your loss - not only of Mr T but all the stuff you couldn't get out.... heartbreaking, even though you've had some interesting events before (cue thoughts of a flying mast ).

Hope you recover physically and emotionally soon.... maybe a trip to Tokai will help?

You're in my thoughts.... take care, and if I can help in any way please let me know.

Thanks Garry. Indeed there have been challenges in the past and I am sure I will get past this one eventually. Actually Tokai is coming to me tomorrow in the shape of Zelda :). Unplanned as I was supposed to be in Morocco of course. Perhaps I can put her to work in my garden :think:.
 
Not much to add to Byron's account of events but a couple of points from my perspective though.

As the lead car it's sometimes tricky to navigate, look out for obstacles and keep an eye on the rest of the group. Sometimes made even harder if there's a good amount of dust or any gradient changes.

Communication between cars is critical when travelling in a group wether for an it or banter or to raise the alarm in an emergency.

When Byron came on the radio with a problem it was unclear what that was exactly. Normal routine is to stop whilst the problem is investigated and go back to help if needed. I stopped the car and saw the puff of the extinguisher and knew help was needed. I was back with Byron extinguisher in hand in about 30secs.

The radio shout was critical to alerting the group even if ultimately we were unable to control the fire.

Learning from this terrible event is pretty crucial if your overlanding. Battery isolators and fuel shut offs have been mentioned. Another thing to think about is alternative ways to open the bonnet, such as bonnet pins used on race cars. Both the firemen who attended the scene and others since have confirmed the inability to open the bonnet in a fire is very common

When the incid not happened one local stopped as he was passing and another came racing across the desert. If it had been a solo car this guys would have helped even if communication was difficult. It was one of these guys who called the police.
 
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So sorry to see and hear what happened Byron, I'm just glad no one was hurt. :)

That your efforts couldn't put it out suggest a battery feeding into a fault.
Rich

Reminds me of a terrible eye witness account I watched on TV years ago from a British cop who attended the scene of a car accident and managed to pop the bonnet of a car and extinguish an engine bay fire of a car which had a guy trapped in it. Only as he didnt know to disconnect the battery it kept reigniting, he emptied his fire extinguisher and with no sign of the fire brigade he was forced to stand and witness this poor guy, who was fully conscious burn to death. :icon-cry:

I'm pretty sure all UK emergency services are trained now to disconnect batteries at serious accidents, even if nothing is on fire when they arrive. :think:

Another thing to think about is alternative ways to open the bonnet, such as bonnet pins used on race cars. Both the firemen who attended the scene and others since have confirmed the inability to open the bonnet in a fire is very common

I wonder if there is a more subtle, more secure method we could use that would still allow super quick access in the event of an emergency.

I wonder if we could add another cable/piece of wire that could hang below the grill/bullbar and be pulled when required.

I'm thinking with the standard setup, maybe the outer cable melts in a fire meaning the inner cable then cant slide inside it and thats why the standard cable doesnt work in fires. So maybe a piece of solid wire hanging down, attached to the bonnet catch, as a secondary option could work. :think:
 
So sorry to see and hear what happened Byron, I'm just glad no one was hurt. :)



Reminds me of a terrible eye witness account I watched on TV years ago from a British cop who attended the scene of a car accident and managed to pop the bonnet of a car and extinguish an engine bay fire of a car which had a guy trapped in it. Only as he didnt know to disconnect the battery it kept reigniting, he emptied his fire extinguisher and with no sign of the fire brigade he was forced to stand and witness this poor guy, who was fully conscious burn to death. :icon-cry:
I remember that Ben, and if IIRC he had to walk away from the scene once the fire brigade had arrived and then had to deal with an irate driver complaining about the hold up :angry-screaming:theirs is not always an easy job.
The idea of a solid cable for the bonnet release is good but I think the dash release pulls the bonnet catch upwards so a cable below would have to be configured to do the same which may prove to be difficult. Unless the dash cable pulls a lever downwards thereby pulling the release upward.
 
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing and i feel for Byron all over again that here is the place to discuss prevention .

Only because i crushed my bonnet catch do i know that i can open the bonnet externally if needs must .

The grill is plastic and could be torn out allowing me to yank the cable at the catch .
 
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We tried that Shayne no joy but by then it was getting very hot.

Any chance of a "how to" post??
 
What i'm suggesting Mark is familiarity might make a difference so spare 5 minutes to remove the catch and put it back on again .

The grill on our 90 trucks is an ornament and while crushing my bonnet catch i also bust most of what holds it in place , i doubt the little 6mm spanner size bolt that holds it in place now would resist violent removal .
 
Yup, I like shaynes thinking on this. I'm also familiar with the latch mechanism on my colorado which wouldn't be far off on the 80 series. I'm sure grabbing the grill and pulling would easily destroy/remove the grill and allow easy access to the cord which you can then yank with a pliers, twist with a screwdriver or just with your hands. Familiarity is key here. Obviously there's no time to hang about.
 
Well I've had a look at mine but not taken it off and can't see anyway of getting enough pull on the cable to release it.

I'll take it off an have a look in a minute
 
Byron my condolences, it must have been truly heart wrenching to watch.

On my 80 the catch mech is shielded so that the bonnet cant be opened from through the grill, or with the grill removed.

Fire is one of those things that has always concentrated my attention.
 
Byron my condolences, it must have been truly heart wrenching to watch.

On my 80 the catch mech is shielded so that the bonnet cant be opened from through the grill, or with the grill removed.

Fire is one of those things that has always concentrated my attention.

Thanks Julian, it was indeed heart wrenching to watch and to be powerless to stop it happening :cry:.

As you say it is not possible to access the catch or wire through the grill on an 80 - I tried. In the photograph of the fire you can see what look like sticks hanging down from the bonnet. That is the remains of the grill I ripped out.

However I intend to add some additional mechanism to my next overland car to ensure that the bonnet catch can be released from outside the car regardless of the state of the existing wire.
 
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