Problems in Wales.

[Roger Fairclough]

Your right Ben, you still haven't answered the question.

I joined GLASS to have a voice that would be heard. My membership fees go to fighting our corner in the legal way open to us.

The courts.

I am responsible for the UCR's in Warwickshire. I have attended council meetings in Warwick, Stratford and Leamington to oppose closures and restrictions. I have organised working parties to repair tracks in Great Alne, Charlecote Coughton, Preston Bagot etc. I have attended meetings, with other reps from GLASS and the TRF to put pressure on the council for other repairs to be done. I have organised the replacement of route markers removed by farmers or ramblers. I have had discussions with laning groups within Warwickshire as to where to go and what to do and, even more important, what not to do. I have another meeting scheduled for the 28th Nov. with a new group in Bedworth.

That's what I do Ben.

With regards to the NERC and CROW Act I did what many other members of GLASS, the TRF and other pro-users did. I personally wrote to the Deputy Prime Minister to voice my concern over the situation.

So the question still stands but so there can be no doubt as to what it is,

"What have you done to preserve our rights to drive unsurfaced rights of way"

Roger

 

[OG.]

This thread is an excellent example of why we are losing the lanes. We can't agree anything and spend all our time bickering amongst ourselves.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

This thread is an excellent example of why we are losing the lanes. We can't agree anything and spend all our time bickering amongst ourselves.

So what have you done to preserve our rights? GLASS, the TRF and LARA are all agreed that we need to fight.

So we fight and if this type of discussion brings more on our side, so be it.

We all have a choice. Do you want to join GLASS and see your membership fees go to a good cause or do you want to sit on the sideline.

The choice is yours (not just OG) but if you want the second route, please don't tell us what we should be doing. It's a bit like politics, if you didn't vote, you don't have a right to complain.

Roger

 

[Roger Fairclough]

By the way, last month, GLASS, the TRF and the Vehicle Users Group, co-operated in the second "Back to Tarmac" demonstration, to highlight the national parks decision to close two iconic lanes. There were approx. 120 bikes and 70 motors on the day.

We can and we do work together to promote our rights.

There will be further demonstrations.

Roger

 

[Ben]

Your right Ben, you still haven't answered the question.

I joined GLASS to have a voice that would be heard. My membership fees go to fighting our corner in the legal way open to us.

The courts.

I am responsible for the UCR's in Warwickshire. I have attended council meetings in Warwick, Stratford and Leamington to oppose closures and restrictions. I have organised working parties to repair tracks in Great Alne, Charlecote Coughton, Preston Bagot etc. I have attended meetings, with other reps from GLASS and the TRF to put pressure on the council for other repairs to be done. I have organised the replacement of route markers removed by farmers or ramblers. I have had discussions with laning groups within Warwickshire as to where to go and what to do and, even more important, what not to do. I have another meeting scheduled for the 28th Nov. with a new group in Bedworth.

That's what I do Ben. Roger

Top work Roger. Sounds like your working hard to keep the lanes open and to educate people.

If/when i retire I'd like to do something similar.

With regards to the NERC and CROW Act I did what many other members of GLASS, the TRF and other pro-users did. I personally wrote to the Deputy Prime Minister to voice my concern over the situation.

Roger

So everyone wrote letters to the deputy PM.

No campaign, no fight..........................write a few letters and hope thats going to stop these 2 acts getting through parliament which would ultimately close thousands of miles of rights of way to vehicles!

unbelievable!

"What have you done to preserve our rights to drive unsurfaced rights of way"

Roger

Ive sent opposition letters/emails to loads of proposed closures.

But like you found with NERC and CROW it hasnt really had any effect.

IMHO before CROW and NERC got through parliament there was perhaps still a chance to campaign and stop what was about to happen.

 

[Towpack]

.


The fight in the UK is sadly too late in the coming.
The "bobble hats" have won.
How long before the very last lane is shut, just a matter of time I am afraid.
There will be no lanes for motor vehicles.
It will all be Pay and Play.

A far cry from the likes of France, Spain, South Africa, Australia, and dare I say that even China has thousands upon thousands of miles of off road track, where you can play to your hearts content, and no one is going to do or say any thing about it.

Gra.

As an active member of the TRF I couldn't disagree more. The "bobble hats" certainly haven't won. In fact the 'anti's' have lost battles over green lane routes in the PDNP over the last 18 months with said routes going to a public enquiry to determine classification and being declared as 'BOATS' after representation by the TRF and other vehicle user groups. True, some of the lanes are again under threat and the threat will probably NEVER go away completely but neither will the fight to keep them open by those that feel passionate enough to actually do something about it.


A far cry from France, Spain, S.Africa, Australia and China? How can you possibly compare our small, overpopulated island with the likes of South Africa, Australia or China? A meaningless comparison. JMO

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Ben.

So which part do you find unbelievable?

The letters/emails that we write.

Or you ones you write?

Roger

 

[OG.]

What I have or have not done is frankly irrelevant. What is relevant is that most of the trail users can't present a united front. That's why the Bobblies will win.

 

[Ben]

Ben.

So which part do you find unbelievable?

The letters/emails that we write.

Or you ones you write?

Roger

Hardly a fair comparison.

I write a letter to object to the closure of a single lane.

You ONLY write a letter to object to the closure of thousands of miles of green lanes in the UK.

But theres no point arguing about what wasnt done in the past. As others have said we need to be a united front fighting to keep the existing lanes open.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

I write a letter to object to the closure of a single lane.

You ONLY write a letter to object to the closure of thousands of miles of green lanes in the UK.

Firstly, I write to object to every possible closure, downgrade or TRO proposed by ANY council.

Secondly, going back to my original post, can we assume then, that you will be writing to object to these two downgrades?

If so, thank you.

Roger

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

It's very easy to say more should have been done Ben but in fact a lot of people worked very hard, putting a lot of time and money into fighting NERC and most of them were not retired. That our efforts failed is very disappointing. That you should wag your finger at us and say we should have done more is even more disappointing and insulting.

 

[Ben]

Apologies John, never meant to offend you.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I'm not hot under the collar about it Ben, but I think your research has misled you.

 

[clivehorridge]

I asked for people to write a letter.

Roger, I'm not a "green laner" and I'm not even in the UK to experience it.

However, I do support maintaining the road system we have because it's a slippery slope for older less used roads, as you very well know and you are actively campaigning hard against closure of these less-used rights of way.

Just look at Beaching in the 1960's when he decimated the Railway Networks. Because the railways are not public rights of way and not Queens Highway, the general public had little say in the railway debate.

These roads are public rights of way and are the Queens Highway .

It's only a thought, but it is of course important to be lobbying the right people. A local authority with very tight budget constraints will have little option if there's no money in the pot, despite their feeble efforts to allocate some of the budget to these worthy projects, will be able to do very little however much they are lobbied.

I'm a member of the Chartered Institution of Highways and Transportation (CIHT) and it may be beneficial to express your concerns and objections to them. And, although it sounds twee and pompous, I would also suggest a letter to the Queen, it is her "highway" after all and she does have strong views on civil liberty and maintaining heritage, which essentially is what this is all about.

The problem is, although I would be pleased to open a post on the CIHT forum (of which I'm a member), because I have no idea of the terms you're using (GLASS, TRF, TRO, CROW, NERC) and even less idea of the process and procedures behind local authorities' obligations to maintain rights of way and their "escape routes" such as closures, if I did post an objection to the closures, I would enter into a subject I know nothing about and I would be lost to a continuing discussion.

It sounds as though I might be one of the millions that "tut tut" and say "what a shame", and end up doing nothing about it.

However, I'll gladly write a letter to Mark Stafford-Tolley Head of Legal Scrutiny and Democratic Services (Law and Governance), County Hall, Llandrindod Wells, Powys, LD1 5LG (plugging the address again) but I do think it may be beneficial for you to lobby the CIHT :

The Institution of Highways &Transportation
6 Endsleigh Street
London
WC1H 0DZ
UK

Good luck and success in at least slowing down the demise of these precious roads and rights of way.

As a PS, how would I go about joining GLASS?

 

[wobbly]

Is this downgrading to Restricted Byway status?

 

[Paddler Ed]

As a kayaker and a canoeist we have similar problems. Even our National Governing Body, with circa 33k members in England alone, couldn't improve our access to the rivers (which we have access under the Magna Carta, but the fisherman have decided otherwise) when the CROW Act was passed...

Unfortunately the NIMBY's and the Red Socks have beggered it up for nearly all of my hobbies:
-Canoeing and Kayaking
-Mountain Biking
-4WDing

I don't know what the solution is; part of me believes that you need someone like the Rev Doug Caffyn to produce a lot of literature (PhD and similar) to support the cause, but it doesn't seem to be doing us much good!

He's got some good bits on the status of Public Rights of Navigation that may be transferable to the Byway situation.

HTH

Ed

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Is this downgrading to Restricted Byway status?

Sorry for the delay Pete, Viv and I have just returned from a week in Yorkshire.

The downgrade is all the way to bridleway status for both routes.

Roger

 

[wobbly]

They must think they have sufficient legal basis regarding the routes history then?

Thats a different argument to closure to prevent damage.

Who is compiling evidence on behalf of motorised user groups?

Pete

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Pete.

This is how Powys work the system.

It,s a by-way.

But the route is classed as "Red".

This means it is basically grass over sub-soil.

It is therefore primarily used by walkers and riders.

The cost to convert the grass surface to a sustainable vehicular one is beyond that which is acceptable to the council.

Remedy.

Downgrade it to a bridleway.

If no body yells "Oi".

That is what will happen because it's the council doing it and that means they are saving their tax payers money.

So the council are happy and the tax payers are happy.

At first.

But then the people who drive the lanes don't go to Powys and so all the money that we spend on local amenities dries up and then the shops, garages and B & B's start closing etc etc.

Viv and I just spent a week in Yorkshire. A day in Scarborough, ditto York, a days laning and the rest visiting here and walking there. Total cost around £700, all spent in Yorkshire.

This is what the councils don't take into consideration.

Roger

 

[Roger Fairclough]

Missed a bit.

If you want further details, you need to ask the area rep for GLASS.

There are two and I don't know which you would ask, so here are their email addresses.

[email protected] Sue Marsden

[email protected] Ed Percy

You could always join.

Roger