Tyres? - Mix and match

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So lads + Lassie (Renate)
All this talk of AT V's MT
I think we know the uses both have under certain circumstances.
My Africa trip will involve about 5K KM / 25% of the trip in the
wet/mud driving.
I can only take 6 wheeles - 4 + 2 spare.
Any thoughts on the advantage or otherwise of making the 2 spares MT's
- sticking them on the back when the going gets stickey?
For that matter - would they be better on the back or front?
Cheers
Niall
HDJ80 - sitting on the fence
 
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I do not know for sure but is there a problem with having different size
tyres? Even though the advertised size may be the same the actual size can
vary.
exactly the same size AT has a diameter of 32.8 inches. Is this enough
difference to effect a viscous coupling during high grip motoring?
Ian
 
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Hi Niall,
Maybe that would depend whether you were entering or leaving a muddy hole.
BTW, Did you use MT's to get on the fence?
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 1HDT 80 Auto, 109000 miles, Safari snorkel, Custom Winch
bumper + winch, and Rear bumper with spare wheel carrier
+ Ray Dadd Rocksliders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Niall Somers" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tyres? - Mix and match
 
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Chas
Re > Maybe that would depend whether you were entering or leaving a
muddy hole.
Ha ha
Re > BTW, Did you use MT's to get on the fence?
No. Pole Vaulted onto it with my shovel
Niall
 
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Ian
Re > I do not know for sure but is there a problem with having
different size
tyres?
Yes i believe there is also.
Re > Is this enough difference to effect a viscous coupling during high
grip motoring?
Haven't a clue
Cheers
Niall
 
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hi niall,
personally i wouldn't. if you are lucky you will be able to do the swapping around, however
more than likely you are going to get punctures so you will end up with odd combinations with
one mt and one at on an axle.
assuming there isn't much detail in the circumferences you shouldn't have too many problems with
normal driving, however as soon as you end up locking the diffs the size difference can cause
problems with wind up.
sorry mate, you need to decide which way to go and stick with just one type.
the key issue seems to be the rainy season down on the east coast - try dropping a line to --
(jeremy -- - [email address removed]) - he is based down in kenya and could
give you some useful advice on the road conditions, etc. at the time you are travelling. if you
are on skype you should be able to have a chat with him about it all - certainly worth meeting
up with him if you are in the area.
there are others from the list that have done the capetown trip once or twice who i could put
you in touch with (they are off list at the moment).
also go to http://www.overland.co.za/ and join their overland forum - they are mainly south of
africa (sa, namibia,botswana, etc) based, but have lots of experience of east africa - also a
great way to make some friends to meet up with when you get down to sa.
--
regards,
julian voelcker
mobile: 07971 540362
skype: julianvoelcker
cirencester, united kingdom
1994 hdj80, 2.5" ome lift
 
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Niall
MT or AT will no longer be a problem when you run out of spares and
start shopping around. In most places in Africa new tyres are going to
be very expensive (even by EU prices) and used tyres may come in any
shape and form, some even with thread.
You could save some weight if you pack one spare wheel + tyre combo
and one rimless tyre and tyre levers.
You will find two spare wheels hanging off the rear bumper a bit on
the heavy side, requiring extra strong rear springs (especially if you
have a fridge and second fuel tank at the back). Air bags inside the
rear springs do work well and I think you could give them a try if you
find the rear end sagging under load.
Also,don't forget spare shocks.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
On 7/31/07, Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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julian
re> u need to decide which way to go and stick with just one type.
i think your right - have to go with one or other to start out with.
roman is right as well - once on the road anything could happen.
what's also come out of this tyre issue is that there's no point in
hitting kenya or tanzania before june. it's naieve and fool hardy to
think you'd get through those roads - mt at - whatever - its a no go
zone in the wet. my itenary has to change to accommodate the weather.
1st april will have to be the departure date.
also the main herds migration into kenya starts after the rains - after
june.
will definetly get in touch with Fred - thanks for that + have signed
up to that forum.
better go do some work.......
cheers
niall
 
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Alright Roman
Re > You will find two spare wheels hanging off the rear bumper a bit
on
the heavy side, requiring extra strong rear springs (especially if you
have a fridge and second fuel tank at the back). Air bags inside the
rear springs do work well and I think you could give them a try if you
find the rear end sagging under load.
Have a set of OME expedition strength springs + putting one spare on
the back - one behing the passenger seat with the fridge on top to
reduce rear end weight.
But will look into air bags for the rear springs - thanks.
Oh yes - shocks - good ones and plenty of them!
Thanks
Niall
 
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Niall
Never used MTs...
Back, if your 4x4 is rear wheel drive, I would say, and front if its front
wheel drive...
Not that I'm an expert, of course.
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall Somers
Sent: 31 July 2007 08:27
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tyres? - Mix and match
So lads + Lassie (Renate)
All this talk of AT V's MT
I think we know the uses both have under certain circumstances.
My Africa trip will involve about 5K KM / 25% of the trip in the
wet/mud driving.
I can only take 6 wheeles - 4 + 2 spare.
Any thoughts on the advantage or otherwise of making the 2 spares MT's
- sticking them on the back when the going gets stickey?
For that matter - would they be better on the back or front?
Cheers
Niall
HDJ80 - sitting on the fence
 
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Thanks Renate - always good to hear from one with a few desert miles
under the hood...
Re > Back, if your 4x4 is rear wheel drive, I would say, and front if
its front
wheel drive...
If its all wheeldrive.....????
Perhaps one on the front driver side and 1 on the rear passenger side.
Not quite who wants to be a millionaire - more like who wants a buggerd
up diff and drive train!
Anyway - Looks like i'll be stalling departure till 1st April and going
AT's all the way.
Not sure I can wait that long. Would love to be going tomorrow.
Cheers
Niall
 
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Hi
I would never mix tires on any vehicle unless in an emergency. It is for the
same reasons illegal to some extent in EU: The brake and directional
abilities have nothing to do with how may axels are contributing to forward
motion, all wheels have their significant role in stopping and keeping it
straight. It the rear tires slip the vehicle rotates on its center
completely out of control, if it slips on the front it continues right
ahead, and that is in some situations not desireble - but if one must
choose, then the rear tires should be the ones with most grip.
Leading to the question: If on tarmac, dirt and other resonable solid
surfaces that would mean the AT tire rear, and MT in front, if only two of
each type was available! Offroad in more soft terrain would be the opposite.
Wich IMHO again leads to the conclusion: Take on what is needed - and if
soft soil is encountered that means MT, and then one has to live with the
drawbacks on the solid surfaces - which would be possible as one can get
forward always, but may have to slow down somewhat. At least similar grip
would exist all around, leaving a more predictable situation to be handled.
So even if I drive most of the time on the black stuff, I too will consider
an MT for the next replacements. To have the ability to actually get through
stuff...
The Dakar rally drivers seem to prefer an open thread as well, even if they
to do encounter lots of soft sand...
Hope it helped rather than confused :)
Regards...
Henrik
 
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Henrik
Re > The Dakar rally drivers seem to prefer an open thread as well,
even if they
to do encounter lots of soft sand...
Wasn't aware of this..
Will look into this more.
Thanks
Niall
 
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Yes hello the Henrik is correct as I am also have truck driver permit in
France. The tires for heavy lorries on the same axel must only be of one
same brand even.
> illegal to some extent in EU:
2007/8/1, Henrik Christensen <[Email address removed]>:
>
> Hi
>
> I would never mix tires on any vehicle unless in an emergency. It is for
> the same reasons illegal to some extent in EU: The brake and directional
> abilities have nothing to do with how may axels are contributing to forward
> motion, all wheels have their significant role in stopping and keeping it
> straight. It the rear tires slip the vehicle rotates on its center
> completely out of control, if it slips on the front it continues right
> ahead, and that is in some situations not desireble - but if one must
> choose, then the rear tires should be the ones with most grip.
>
> Leading to the question: If on tarmac, dirt and other resonable solid
> surfaces that would mean the AT tire rear, and MT in front, if only two of
> each type was available! Offroad in more soft terrain would be the opposite.
> Wich IMHO again leads to the conclusion: Take on what is needed - and if
> soft soil is encountered that means MT, and then one has to live with the
> drawbacks on the solid surfaces - which would be possible as one can get
> forward always, but may have to slow down somewhat. At least similar grip
> would exist all around, leaving a more predictable situation to be handled.
>
> So even if I drive most of the time on the black stuff, I too will
> consider an MT for the next replacements. To have the ability to actually
> get through stuff...
>
> The Dakar rally drivers seem to prefer an open thread as well, even if
> they to do encounter lots of soft sand...
>
> Hope it helped rather than confused :)
>
> Regards...
>
> Henrik
>
 
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Niall
Whatever! had cause to have two General tires on the front one year
different then the rear ones - changed them as soon as I could, because I
didn't like them...although they did the job.
All wheel drive - then it doesn't really matter, except you might feel a bit
of a drag on occasions - NO! do NOT put one (front) on one side and its
opposite on the back...bad, bad move - NOT recommended! buggered up diff and
drive train almost certainly - and pretty much first day out in the hard
stuff if you're really unlucky
Yeah, you're not the only one - I'm just looking for an excuse - ANY excuse
to return to the Sahara! 1st April 2008 is April fools day... make sure
you're little leprechaun is good to you...or maybe you should treat the
little mite...
I should be (if all goes to plan, but it never does - "Africa" time) away
early March for about 6 weeks - not as long as your expedition, granted, but
I don't have the dosh for an extended trek - I'd love to take the eastern
side route to south africa and meet up with a mate and pals.
You're talking about 18,000 gbpounds arn't you? for your trip, maybe more?
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall Somers
Sent: 31 July 2007 18:26
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Tyres? - Mix and match
Thanks Renate - always good to hear from one with a few desert miles
under the hood...
Re > Back, if your 4x4 is rear wheel drive, I would say, and front if
its front
wheel drive...
If its all wheeldrive.....????
Perhaps one on the front driver side and 1 on the rear passenger side.
Not quite who wants to be a millionaire - more like who wants a buggerd
up diff and drive train!
Anyway - Looks like i'll be stalling departure till 1st April and going
AT's all the way.
Not sure I can wait that long. Would love to be going tomorrow.
Cheers
Niall
 
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Renate
I hear you.
Re > 1st April 2008 is April fools day... make sure
you're little leprechaun is good to you...or maybe you should treat
the
little mite...
Will keep him pickled on Whiskey!
Re > You're talking about 18,000 gbpounds arn't you? for your trip,
maybe more?
Yep - you wouldn't get much change out of 20K stlg. If you were to
factor in Vehicle prep costs, loss of earnings, maintaining mortgage and
other stuff - you could rack up a bill that would be large enough stop
you going - so best not to add it up. Just work 60 hrs a week for 2
years and go - and enjoy every minute of it!
Would be interested to know what type of fuel consumption you average
when overlanding.
I'm estimating 15miles / gallon @ an av fuel cost of euro 0.52/ltr over
15K miles = about 2.5K euro
The carnet du passage could cost more than diesel!
Cheers
Niall
 
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Niall
Best way of doing it - all I need is a job so I can do it too - so have to
rely on 'clients' to get me (and them) out there - have a few lined up -
needs must.
Carnet - it could, indeed.
It depends - fuel consumption - 11-16 km per gallon (4 to 5 litres) on mixed
(half & half) dunes/erg/gravel/hamada. 6-8 km per gallon (4 to 5 litres)
pure dunes (10 km if I'm lucky). I have stretched it to 12 km, but its
better with fresh fluids and lubes all round, fresh heavy duty truck oil (my
favourite brand is Merc Truck - Fuchs), running clean, and all new hoses and
filters - and the little extra? I have the engine tweaked a bit before I
leave the country. The hotter the engine gets the better it performs.
On roads, 26.7 miles per gallon @ 47-55 miles per hour. On gravel, similar
to hamada but have to go slower on hamada/gravel due to feche feche. Mine
all depends on revs, not so much on speed. 2500-3000 revs upwards (dunes)
and fuel consumption doesn't exactly rocket but l'beast does get a little
thirsty - but I cover myself...
I usually carry as much fuel as is sensible so having an extra 170 ltrs to
play with plus 125 litres plus on top is very useful (and comforting...)! I
recommend you get yourself a LRFT if you can afford it - and protect it with
a protecting metal plate - I didn't and wish I had! (damaged, ironically, in
the UK...).
I carry lots of spares (hoses, filters, 'V' belts (a whole set),
lubes/fluids, oil and consumables etc) a good comprehensive range of tools -
okay they did cost a lot but they're worth it for the quality.
My belts are due fore replacement and I'm going to have the Cam belt done
too (its overdue)
Tyres are usually BFG AT's, and I carry up to three spares (well, you never
know). They are tubeless but I carry about three tubes - they often come in
handy for other things....
I have two x 12 ltr shower bags, no fridge. I'd rather have more space for
spares than for cold drinks! If you keep some water under everything else
(if you've got a shelving system) you can keep your drinking water very
cool. Similarly, with cured meat stored next to the water containers and it
will last up to three weeks - wrap hard cheese and cured meat in muslim and
light canvas, wrap well, store away from any other foods that may be
spoiled, and they'll last you a while - I had fresh cheese and fresh bacon
one year...bacon done on one of those bbq racks - VERY tasty! Arabs don't
eat pork products but Tuaregs are partial on occasions... I even had crispy
duck....no alcohol though, unless you get 'in' with a good crowd of
indigenous peoples - I was offered home-brew...but DON'T let the authorities
get wind of it or you're deep dog doos. Best not to get products containing
alcohol unless you are sure its okay to do so - I don't think its a problem
outside of muslem areas, best to follow the equation of Muslim = NO alcohol
For offroading I usually get Toyota parts/spares/consumables for my 'kit' -
they don't always offer a discount, unless they're asked, but sometimes,
with a little (aka alot...) co-ercion they usually do.
You've got yourself an enormous task ahead, logistically and
planning/organising haven't you? - I wish you all the best! and, it will be
worth it.
Say, with a bit extra for contingency you won't see much loose change from
?23,000 - how long are you planning on being away?
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall Somers
Sent: 01 August 2007 14:47
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Tyres? - Mix and match
Renate
I hear you.
Re > 1st April 2008 is April fools day... make sure
you're little leprechaun is good to you...or maybe you should treat
the
little mite...
Will keep him pickled on Whiskey!
Re > You're talking about 18,000 gbpounds arn't you? for your trip,
maybe more?
Yep - you wouldn't get much change out of 20K stlg. If you were to
factor in Vehicle prep costs, loss of earnings, maintaining mortgage and
other stuff - you could rack up a bill that would be large enough stop
you going - so best not to add it up. Just work 60 hrs a week for 2
years and go - and enjoy every minute of it!
Would be interested to know what type of fuel consumption you average
when overlanding.
I'm estimating 15miles / gallon @ an av fuel cost of euro 0.52/ltr over
15K miles = about 2.5K euro
The carnet du passage could cost more than diesel!
Cheers
Niall
 
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Renate
Fascinating description, and - I can't help it, sorry:
| ... wrap hard cheese and cured meat in muslim and light canvas ...
Not sure I'd want to eat it after that treatment!
Wish my German was as good as your English
CB
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CB
Actually, the cheese its very nice....you have to trust me on this...- you
don't wrap them up together, obviously!
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 01 August 2007 16:36
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Tyres? - Mix and match
Renate
Fascinating description, and - I can't help it, sorry:
| ... wrap hard cheese and cured meat in muslim and light canvas ...
Not sure I'd want to eat it after that treatment!
Wish my German was as good as your English
CB
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Renate
I think you missed my point. Cheese and meat go well together, however
when:
wrapped in musliN (a fine aerated fabric) they would be fine, I agree.
wrapped in musliM (a lady or gentleman follower of Mohammed) they might
not be so palatable....
CB
| CB
|
| Actually, the cheese its very nice....you have to trust me on this...-
you
| don't wrap them up together, obviously!
|
| Renate
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